Meanwhile in the real world, in most of the US there is no realistic alternative to the red/blue dichotomy, and so while we're actually building that alternative we have to choose between those two.

You aren't building the alternative, you're arguing against building the alternative. You support the status quo.

You either work with the coalition you think is less evil and try to convince them to be even less evil, or you admit that you're okay with the more evil option if it gives you a feeling of moral superiority

Correct, you're doing the latter while I'm doing the former. Trying to work with Socialists and build a good party is better than sitting on your hands and giving the genocidal imperialists the keys forever.

[–] lengau@midwest.social 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (13 children)

"Building an alternative" doesn't happen in the ballot box. It happens everywhere else.

It happens by a better voting system rather than FPTP, for which I'm doing actual, active advocacy. (Are you?)

It happens by working at a grassroots level to get people with better opinions elected, all the way down to local judges, city council members and library boards, where I, once again, am active. (Are you?)

It happens by getting involved in politics at a local level and building a movement. I'm doing that. (Are you?) It doesn't happen by throwing a tantrum in the voting booth.

The fascists know this. The fascists use this to their advantage. And the fascists would absolutely love for there to be 10 competing leftist parties acting as a spoiler effect for liberals. Because as bad as liberals are, fascists are worse.

Throwing out a "no u" when I point out how the things you are doing are paving the way for fascists is not a good argument unless your goal is to actually get fascists into power. And I will choose liberalism over fascism, because that's the harm reduction path to leftism, whereas letting the fascists win is the harm maximisation path.

[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

getting a better voting system rather than FPTP

i just want to pass by to point out that not-fptp is implemented on many places without the big results the proponents of this solution say it to be.

the same goes for mandatory voting. we have the same issues with electoralism.

[–] lengau@midwest.social 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

FPTP is only one problem with the system. But it's still a problem pretty much everywhere that has it. There are many other things that make it particularly worse in the US, but that doesn't make it not a problem with it.

[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 month ago

the main problem we should be striving to fix to actually end this madness is the undue influence of capital in our 'democracies' due to capitalism.

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