But I'll bite. First of all, I don't appreciate the strawmen. I'm not saying that there is a lot of tankies, nor that they are here now suddenly. I'm not denying that US/Western propaganda doesn't exist, nor that it's dangerous and pervasive.

I'm just saying that I, myself, in my own experience, have seen people shilling for China or even Russia, acting like it's a fucking utopia. Russia an oligarchy, just with a different structure than most Western countries. China is a government that rules over billions of people. That is, by definition, evil. No amount of America Bad makes China or Russia good.

In terms of propaganda sources, for example just take a look at Russia Today.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 5 days ago (13 children)

Nobody believes Russia is a Utopia.
Nobody believes the PRC is perfect, but on the right track, and especially nice in Tier 1 and 2 cities.
The CPC has over 90% support, the fact that China has a government does not mean that is "evil."

[–] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de -2 points 5 days ago (12 children)

90% support makes the whole thing more suspicious to me than anything.

I'm sure a lot of the policy that the CCP has put forward are great, especially if compared to the US counterparts, but that doesn't justify violence and oppression.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Why does it make you suspicious? Do you have legitimate grounds for this? Under the CPC, extreme poverty has been eliminated, and China went from being one of the poorest countries on the planet to a rising superpower in less than a century. When you look at the real, material change in people's lives in as short a timespan as this, it's understandable why they have a high approval rate.

Secondly, I don't know what you're referring to as "justification for violence and oppression."

[–] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 5 days ago (2 children)

it’s understandable why they have a high approval rate.

It is. I'm not saying the number is fake. I'm saying that the CCP does not make an effort to make its government transparent and emancipate its citizens so they can form cirtical opinions. Those in power hold all the tools to keep themselves in power.

[–] Kieselguhr@hexbear.net 5 points 5 days ago

I'm saying that the CCP does not make an effort to make its government transparent and emancipate its citizens so they can form cirtical opinions.

You said you don't speak Chinese.

You read this where? NYT? Radio Free Asia? Totally-Non-Governmental-Organization coincidentally lead by Atlantic Council ghouls and retired NATO generals?

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 5 days ago (1 children)

On what grounds do you say the CPC does not make an effort to make its government transparent? Whole Process People's Democracy, and the general democratic processes within the PRC, require politicians to work their way up from small, local rungs until they reach the top. Secondly, the fact that you don't speak Mandarin and consider all state press to be propaganda rags does not mean that the CPC doesn't showcase transparency to its own citizens in the PRC.

Thirdly, it is a chauvanistic point of view to claim that the PRC doesn't "emancipate its own citizens" so they can "form critical opinions," frankly. This is a sinophobic point of view that claims a country of billions can't think for themselves.

Finally, the claim that "those in power have the tools to keep themselves in power" is utterly unsubstantiated. You're conjuring a view of China that isn't based on any material claims.

Listen, I'm sure you're trying to answer in good-faith, but it's clear that you're entirely unfamiliar with how the PRC works and funtions on a day to day basis. It is entirely okay to admit to not knowing much about it, taking a break from the keyboard, and reading up on concepts like Whole Process People's Democracy. I think it would benefit you greatly.

I know you're an Anarchist, but Mao has fantastic advice for this kind of subject matter:

Unless you have investigated a problem, you will be deprived of the right to speak on it. Isn't that too harsh? Not in the least. When you have not probed into a problem, into the present facts and its past history, and know nothing of its essentials, whatever you say about it will undoubtedly be nonsense. Talking nonsense solves no problems, as everyone knows, so why is it unjust to deprive you of the right to speak? Quite a few comrades always keep their eyes shut and talk nonsense, and for a Communist that is disgraceful. How can a Communist keep his eyes shut and talk nonsense?

It won't do!

You must investigate!

You must not talk nonsense!

Oppose Book Worship

I also recommend my introductory Marxism-Leninism reading list, and am happy to answer any questions you might have.

[–] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Okay fine if I have time tmrw I'll do some extra reading on WPPD. Got a good resource?

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Here's an infographic showing the "bottom-up-top-down" structure of the CPC

Here's a decent video going over Whole Process People's Democracy.

Here's an infographic showing the makeup of government.

And you can always ask questions.

The CPC is supported from the bottom-up, all power at the top flows from the bottom, but policy is implemented top-down. The power invested in the top comes from below.

[–] PotatoesFall@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

cheers, I'll take a look at these but also look for non government-sponsored sources

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 days ago

I don't think whether or not the legal structure of the political system is government funded or not makes a difference, it's literally how it exists. You can take out the positive spin and the underlying facts are the same, depending on "non-government source" you're going to run into US-sponsored propaganda (the US approved billions in spreading anti-PRC propaganda by the way).

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