this post was submitted on 10 Jan 2025
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[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (34 children)

See, you go on to prove my exact point, that QA workers and safety workers need the authority to stop production. You recognize this necessary authority, but then undermine it by saying it's the "will of the workers." If you don't recognize it as authority, then it can be gone against, meaning you have to recognize it as authority. Managers don't just do reports, otherwise they wouldn't exist. Managers are coordinators of production, if you ever step foot in a factory you'll see assembly line leaders and area leaders that help coordinate between each other and solve problems as they arise.

You describe fantastic examples like OSHA, which are necessary authorities, essentially explaining why not all hierarchy and not all authority is necessarilly a bad thing. However, you change the names and bring up non-sequitors like GULAGs and whatnot as though you could have an OSHA that only politely asks a factory producing toxic products to stop. OSHA has power because it is punishable to not do what they say, they have authority.

Finally, saying that Marxism isn't Socialist is very silly, but does indeed go along with you pretending Anarchism is the only form of Socialism, and flip-flopping back and forth on whether or not authority is necessary by trying to change the names of structures we both seem to support materially.

The rest of your comment is anticommunist nonsense that you repeat without any sources, so I'll leave you with some great ones:

  1. Blackshirts and Reds: a fantastic critique of the USSR, analysis of Communism's antagonistic relationship with fascism, and tears down "left" anticommunism.

  2. Is The Red Flag Flying? The Political Economy of the Soviet Union is a great analysis of how the economy of the Soviet Union functioned.

  3. Russian Justice is a great book on how the law, court, and prison system worked in the early USSR

  4. Soviet Democracy is an explanation and exploration of the Soviet system of democracy, which democratized the economy dramatically, especially in comparison with the Tsarist system and the current Capitalist system

  5. This Soviet World great history book on the early Soviet period.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (33 children)

See, you go on to prove my exact point, that QA workers and safety workers need the authority to stop production. You recognize this necessary authority, but then undermine it by saying it’s the “will of the workers.” If you don’t recognize it as authority, then it can be gone against, meaning you have to recognize it as authority. Managers don’t just do reports, otherwise they wouldn’t exist.

You're doing the Engels thing. "See, subordinate, you give authority to Bob from safety. Thus, you accept authority, thus, I get to tell you what to do, and I'm telling you to increase production by 200%, skirting safety protocols if need be". It doesn't work like that. Authority, like respect, is earned. A king is not an authority on bootmaking no matter how much power he wields. (Well he could actually be a hobby bootmaker but you get my point).

Proper managers just do reports. Not always the written kind. They're not saying "do this, do that", they're saying "X needs Y, can you supply it, please contact them", they're saying "have a look at this procedure what do you think of it". They're keeping an eye on everything, produce a larger picture and communicate their insights to anyone who should know, or is asking. Their authority comes from good analysis.

OSHA has power because it is punishable to not do what they say, they have authority.

You're still equating power and authority. And not just in the "eh those terms have some overlap and speech can get fuzzy", but in your thinking itself, you're not making crucial distinctions: OSHA would not need any power if bosses did not have power over workers, its authority as people knowledgable in matters of work safety is plenty to make the workers listen to them. You do not need to threaten a machinist for them to not put their dick in a vice. You do need to threaten bosses who threaten machinists so that they put their dick in a vice. The necessity to threaten the boss with gulag does only arise because the boss is given the power to threaten the worker with gulag.

[–] Edie@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

“The whole working gang is interested in production. The program for next month is discussed with all of us. The foreman calls a meeting and tells us that the administration wants us to put out 3,000 milling tools next month. How shall we do it? We discuss in detail; each of us says what he can do. It all adds up to 4,000. So the foreman goes to the administration and raises the plan to 4,000. [...]

https://comlib.encryptionin.space/epubs/this-soviet-world/

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

That's not how quotas were set in the USSR. An analysis of how implementation came to differ from those kinds of ideal descriptions might be in order. Right-out mandatory if you want to call yourself a materialist.

[–] Edie@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Do you have stuff on this? Not sources, I'm not asking you to prove you are correct, I was wondering since you said this that you may have something that I can take a look at.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago

Any anarchist or socdem critique of the USSR. I don't think there's actually much in-depth stuff about this because it amounts to "told you so". Within Marxist theory I guess the Frankfurt school would be worth a look. (Yes, the exact one chuds think rules the world, if only. That is, it's where "Cultural Marxism" points at while ignoring every single thing the Frankfurt school is actually saying.)

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