Right now, big communities dominate the feed. I’m wondering what sort algorithm could level the field so niche or hobbyist communities have a fair chance to get seen.

There’s a good related post: Niche Communities won't be able to reach their true potential until Lemmy adds a sort that takes engagement into account. It puts it well:

“If Lemmy is to truly start having active hobbyist communities instead of being 95% lefty US politics, Shitposts, and some tech stuff, it needs a sort that takes into account the user’s engagement.”

What do you think should be the default sort for a more balanced Lemmy?

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[–] sanity_is_maddening@piefed.social 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (10 children)

Please. No algorithm, please.

And I don't use the Hot or Popular filters because I think they do possess some of the same undertones of that perverse incentive that algorithmic social media has. It would be advisable to kill this before the lemmyverse grows too wide.

Just chronological in all options: Home. Local, and All. But allowing to filter any of them through themes or subject. Piefed is already toying really well with some of these concepts.

This alone allows a lot more of the other small instances and communities to be seen. And removes those perverse incentives to "climb" that corrupting ladder that makes some people post controversial and deranged posts that seek the reward of getting more attention. Algorithms rewarded this. The Hot and Popular filter options of sifting through them rewards this too. And we all know it. And we are seeing its' effect already. In an ideal world this wouldn't be a problem. But we know these will keep being hijacked to that end.

And these don't help the small and the thoughtful communities to arise as we want them to.

I personally set my home page to be the list of the communities I follow and decide what I'm in the mood for. The voyager app is also great for this. And all are set to chronological.

So summing up, my suggestions are:

-kill the Hot and Popular filters. Chronological feed only.

-Add subject filters instead.

-List of Communities followed as homepage. It let's you know what you're in the mood for.

These will help everything including the smaller instances and communities to be seen. This isn't about my preferences. I do this to remove my own tendencies to fall prey to the rage bait catching my attention as a starting point. Because I'm no better. That's the point. Media Experts as soon as 2008 said this ingrained reward loop is a problem because disgust and rage are the reactions that track the most immediately and lock on in the history of all media. If we want Lemmy to be better, we have to make it so. This already doesn't have ads and algorithmic suggestions to nurture engagement, which is great. So this is the only thorn that remains from the dark legacy of social media. Nobody would be shutting up anybody. It's just not rewarding shitposting. If I can disable it myself, the space at large is still falling prey to it as I would if I was using it.

PS: Also, Crossposting obviously helps smaller instances and communities to get noticed too.

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 6 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Algorithm is not a dirty word. Any sorting or filtering is an algorithm. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean we need to kill it off, just don't use them.

[–] sanity_is_maddening@piefed.social 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That was unnecessarily condescending...

I know "algorithm" is not a dirty word. Algorithms are used almost everywhere for almost anything. But when we mention " the Algorithm" colloquially these days we know that we're talking about algorithmic influence in engagement in digital platforms. And how it can have unintended consequences or dark incentives structured within them.

Which was precisely why I was talking about these filters. Not from a place of like/dislike but because of its inherent reward system and how it rewards rage and disgust, exactly as media experts warned everyone it would with the algorithms at the core of the other platforms.

And if you are denying and saying that the same is not already occurring here, you're being disingenuous in this exchange. As one only needs to go through their feed with these filters enabled on navigating across all the federated instances to see the rageposting and disgust at the top. The few exceptions will only prove the rest is the rule.

It's frustrating, because people are not engaging with what I wrote, and are only replying deflections instead of addressing the direct criticism at the core of my argument.

I'm not insulting anyone, I'm not throwing shade at people for enjoying memes, as I do to. I'm merely pointing out the perverse incentive lying at the core of this feature.

And it doesn't matter if I don't like it, I can just not use it, because it's the enabled option in everyone that uses that will be driving their behaviour and fulfilling the loop with its dark incentives.

Why are people not engaging with what I'm saying? I even said "I'm no better" because I will fall prey to it if I leave it on, or even if I feel tempted to go back to it from time to time. That is why I don't.

But I still see the posts that get the most interactions and comments.

This is not an armless feature. This is what broke the civic nature of discussion in society through social media. This loop of incentive will always lead to rage and disgust to raise above all else. And reward derangement in people that seek attention for attention sake.

I don't know what else to say...

I'm sorry if I insulted anyone by pointing this out. But I don't see how my comment can be misconstrued as a personal attack on anyone. As it is just an avaluation of a proposition through its inherent consequences. This is basic level of scientific method right here.

This is not about liking/disliking. I really dislike coffee, and I have offered a coffee machine as a birthday gift to a friend. More than once, actually. I can have people enjoy things I dislike with no hint of an issue. It's even baffling to me when others don't know how to.

This is about adressing an issue at its core. And out it influences behaviour and the user base at large.

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 0 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I don’t know what else to say…

You sure? You wrote a novel based on a couple of sentences my dude.

[–] sanity_is_maddening@piefed.social 3 points 1 week ago

Sorry. Frustration has its way with me. I apologise if I also tired you in the process, beyond myself, obviously.

Apologies.

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