this post was submitted on 19 Feb 2026
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I mean "leftist organization" is a weird term and I would more speak of currents. And there is definitely the Antideutsche or Anti-Germans.
The German left, at least the loud one, is publically dividing between this topic. On demonstration you see a lot of people openly supporting Hamas, wearing the red triangle etc. For me it is only natural to fight this form of anti semitism. That makes you a "Zionist" on Lemmy, as there is often only "anti genocide and pro genocide" in online discussions. But the world is very complex and there is a large continuum between Islamic and Jewish ethno state philosophy.
Don't be discouraged. Personally I don't have the energy any more to endure the abuse of the mob (these "leftist" ignoramuses whose obsession with "Zionism" leads them to support literal fascism) but it's important that somebody makes the points you're making.
ask an anti german what they think of muslims in the middle east :) it'll be the most misanthropic thing you heard all day. anti germans are disgusting zionists and need to be shunned from leftist places. they are pro-genocide and there is no nuance to it. they are not part of the left, just delusional cosplayers
Hemming and hawing over genocide is disgusting.
Seriously, imagine typing "there is often only 'anti genocide and pro genocide' in online discussions" and thinking "yes, I will post this and look like a very good and moral person". Yes, if you're not against genocide you're for genocide. Yes, if you think supporting the resistance to genocide is antisemitic, you are a genocidal zionist. This type of "nuanced" "anti-zionism" (liberal zionism) is also widespread on feddit.org.
By fucking german law at that. And they enforce it too. Never again, as defined by nihlists with no soul serving the plutocracy while the far right takes their country from them and fixes elections while they are busy surrendering their people to tech.
One of them was extremely offended in another thread when I replied to them with "I was just following orders".
What I think they meant was that people here only think about the genocide and thus declare the perpetrators evil (which they are) and the victims the good guys (hamas are not).
One side's atrocities don't justify the other side's. Excusing your own group's actions because they're the good guys is far right thinking.
In reality there's more factors to this than just the genocide, and both hamas and israel are the bad guys in their own way. One is just worse than the other, but that doesn't make the other good.
In this particular conflict, Hamas very much are the good guys (if we have to think in such childish terms) in the same way that the allies were the good guys in World War 2 despite the fact they were mostly genocidal empires themselves. Hell, Hamas are far less evil than almost every western government, especially the German one, because they aren't actively supporting mass genocide.
You condemn all groups actually fighting against Isreals genocide. That is just supporting the Genocide with extra steps
Correct.
You're wrong, Hamas are in fact "the good guys" in this conflict. The resistance to the genocidal settler state are good even if they don't measure up to whatever arbitrary standard of perfection you have in mind.
Bullshit framing designed to try to equate between the invading settler state (with overwhelming firepower) and the (often barely adult) native resistance just trying to survive and protect their homes.
"Hemming and hawing over genocide is disgusting."
The world will be better when humans will be able to escape this manichean thinking.
"I proudly stand for neither the genocidal maniacs or for the armed resistance against them". Most enlightened centrist
Let's agree to disagree there then. I wasn't planning to convince you after all.
We can agree that you oppose resistance to Genocide
I don't agree on that claim, no.
No, you just want to dictate from your comfortable desk how the resistance to an 80-year-long occupation and genocide should look like.
That's not what I said that in response to. This doesn't mean I oppose resistance to genocide, this means I have expectations towards resistance groups. Not the same position. Opposing the form doesn't mean I oppose the concept.
Exactly my point, you think you have any moral right to decide in what form and shape the local resistance against Zionism has to take shape, and otherwise it doesnt get your support.
There are material reasons why Hamas is structured the way it is, and you may not like them or share all their goals, but their primary goal is the liberation of Palestine from Zionism and you should support them in that
If that's your point, you replied to the wrong comment of mine earlier.
When I said "I don't agree on that claim, no." I was specifically referring to the claim that I oppose resistance to genocide, period. When in reality I'm opposing the form that resistance is taking, not resistance itself. That's why I said I don't agree with the claim made.
You don't seem to argue with that fact, you're just arguing about my actual position. Which isn't what I was denying.
So, you do support Hamas?
You're really not arguing in good faith, are you? Not supporting hamas doesn't mean I'm not in favor of resistance against genocide.
But just to clear this up once more:
So no, I do not support Hamas. But yes, I do support Palestinian resistance in theory.
So my point was correct, Hamas is not morally pure enough for your standards, and you don't support resistance against genocide in practice, which is what matters because that's the actually existing resistance against genocide.
Hamas is supposed to be an enlightened leftist organization despite their members being executed, starved and deprived of the most basic resources by the people who threw them out of the lands they used to inhabit. Maybe, just maybe, there are material reasons caused by Israel that make Hamas not conform to your (or my) theoretical ideals?
It is true though
This is all nonsense and you are indeed a zionist. Thank you for making it clear to everyone.
Thank you again for clarifying which side you are on.
"Is genocide bad? Who can say, it's just so complex!"
It does not make you a Zionist on Lemmy. You are a Zionist in real life.
"Opposing Hamas makes you a Zionist", can you confirm that statement?
You said supporting Hamas is antisemitic. Why are you crawling back to the word Zionism now?
Me
You
Again you
Me
???
This is a Zionist defense of Israel by conflating antisemitism with anti-Zionism.
I think they're German, conflating antisemitism with anti-zionism is their favorite excuse for why this genocide will finally be the good one.
Sadly, this meme remains ever relevant.
I see where you are going. Well, how anti Zionism and antisemitism are interconnected is subject to the current scientific debate and I won't start a fundamental discussion on this topic with you. What is important for me in the end is, that I am standing against the left that is openly sympathizing with the Hamas.
Zionism is, and has always been since the modern movement started in the 19th century, intrinsically antisemitic.
If you don't want to engage in a civil discussion, that's alright with me. But if you run out of arguments, just stop commenting?
Hamas is based and defending Palestine against genocidal Nazis.
The modern left-right discourse is just so confusing to me.
I've seen authoritarians, supporters of war crimes, and support for terrorism and cruelty, all claimed as leftist positions. I can't reconcile them with what I thought left-wing values were about.
I really think we need something with more dimensions to be popularized. The left-right system is just so loaded at this point. I personally can't identify with either side at all.
Your problem is that you're an idealist and you think ideas can be translated into practice just by having the correct ideas. Reality is not like that, fascists will play dirty and capitalists will play dirty and you can't win at their own game.
Yeah, I absolutely agree. I guess this is one of the reasons these "inter left" discussions are so exhausting.
And standing with the Zionists openly committing genocide
You believe it is evil to resist Isreals imperialism. That's Zionism
Yes, opposing the main resistance to zionism makes you a zionist. Glad we all understand each other.
Edit: not that you'll see this, I can see piefed.social dropping my replies to you because you have me (or maybe my instance) blocked.
You should have been bullied more in school.