Is it? On GOG you can download games without installing their proprietary client (there is also a libre alternative called Heroic Games Launcher, but that's made by the community). Itch has a libre client and it's also optional. Both those platforms don't put DRM in games, unlike Steam.

Steam has forced updates. This means that game developers can push an update that for example deletes content from your game and as far as I know, you can't really refuse it.

On a page of every game that is sold on Steam, you will see text that says "Buy". But I'm pretty sure their ToS says that you are only renting games from them. So they are misleading their users.

[–] CheesyFox@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (6 children)

That's why I said "one of the fairest" and not "the fairest one". There's a whole lot of what steam does and other companies won't ever do, for instance, Proton. I am forever thankful for it especially, since it motivated me to give linux the second chance. Not to say, that this particular technology turned the whole OS table around.

Steam is not perfect by any means, but people behind it offering quite a fair deal both for the devs and especially for customers. There's basically no alternatives, bc steam has so much more to it than just storing your game library and being a game vendor.

On a page of every game that is sold on Steam, you will see text that says "Buy". But I'm pretty sure their ToS says that you are only renting games from them. So they are misleading their users.

Not actually owning games sucks, but find me a digital marketplace that doesn't say that you're only "renting" them or some other bullshit. Steam doesn't call it renting, rather, I quote, "As a Subscriber you may obtain access to certain services, software and content available to Subscribers or purchase certain Hardware", where the subscriber is the word to call any user that has a steam account, nothing less nothing more: "You become a subscriber of Steam ("Subscriber") by completing the registration of a Steam user account." https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/#1

Basically, this wording is a backdoor for them, in case their servers will be shut down and they won't be physically able to provide any game files. Yes, it opens some ways to exploit this, but unlike some other companies like Ubisoft, Valve never seem to use it this way. Also, torrents do exist, and guess what, they're DRM free, just as you like it, I assume. That's actually exactly why they should exist, imo: to preserve things.

[–] Freesoftwareenjoyer@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago (5 children)

Valve didn't invent Proton. As far as I understand, it's just a fork of WINE. I think the only difference is that it contains fixes for Steam versions of games. For non Steam games everyone uses WINE. I'm sure Proton is convenient for Steam users, though.

Not actually owning games sucks, but find me a digital marketplace that doesn’t say that you’re only “renting” them or some other bullshit.

Since GOG and itch.io give you DRM-free offline installers of games, I believe that you do own the games that you buy there. I haven't read their ToS, though. It is possible that they say the same thing.

Steam doesn’t call it renting, rather, I quote, “As a Subscriber you may obtain access to certain services, software and content available to Subscribers or purchase certain Hardware”, where the subscriber is the word to call any user that has a steam account, nothing less nothing more: “You become a subscriber of Steam (“Subscriber”) by completing the registration of a Steam user account.” https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/#1

Thanks for finding the exact quote. They didn't use that word, but to me it sounds like renting. You have access to software as long as you are a subscriber. But I probably wouldn't mind this if their games didn't have DRM. Then, if at some point you stopped being a subscriber, you would still be able to play your games (at least the ones you've downloaded). Another interesting thing is that they can ban you for selling your Steam account. But before Steam became popular, it was usually possible to sell used games.

Also, torrents do exist, and guess what, they’re DRM free, just as you like it, I assume. That’s actually exactly why they should exist, imo: to preserve things.

The point is that DRM is unethical. I refuse to pay for anything that contains DRM. Breaking it is illegal, requires special skills and sometimes it's very difficult even for experts (Denuvo). If those games were Free Software, any programmer could remove DRM from them and distribute such modified copy. That's exactly why we need to get rid of proprietary software - so that developers don't have power over users. I also think that piracy should exist, but it doesn't solve our issues with software freedom. Nobody should restrict what people can do with their software and their computers.

[–] CheesyFox@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Oh no, Proton is not just "WINE with extra steps", Proton is the directX to Vulkan translator, and unlike previous attempts, its so good that some games perform better than on Windows. Not to mention that Valve managed to solve the problems around anti-cheats and all of this works with minimal tweaking. If it were as simple as you say, somebody should've already done their own proton before Valve, also, in this case there were no community forks of it, that allows to use its power without the need to launch Steam (https://github.com/GloriousEggroll/wine-ge-custom). And yea, Proton is FOSS. Nice of them, to make a revolution and then just let the people actually have it, don't you think? If, for example, Take Two were like this, most of modern games could've had beautiful procedural character animations powered by Euphoria engine.

The point is that DRM is unethical. I refuse to pay for anything that contains DRM. Breaking it is illegal, requires special skills and sometimes it's very difficult even for experts...

DRM is unethical indeed, yet, to use them or not is the choice of the dev. Ban modern DRMs today and what you'll achieve is that companies will try to squirm around and use something even more dirty. Also DRMs are already not the shittiest malware big companies trying to install on your machine, it would be anti-cheat. Why noone talks obout them? There are methods to detect cheaters without installing a rootkit spyware on all the end-users PCs.

...That's exactly why we need to get rid of proprietary software - so that developers don't have power over users. I also think that piracy should exist, but it doesn't solve our issues with software freedom. Nobody should restrict what people can do with their software and their computers.

Lol. Sorry, but the games and DRM are not why. The most important reason to it is that we're losing proprietary software's technologies. Technologies that might help advace our modern day of living. Also because what they're restricting is basically a knoledge, and knowledge shoud be free, not because your poor ass can't own their games.

And Proton is the example that Valve contributes to FOSS community, unlike literally every other major game company, even CDPR.

Thats not even all of it to why i stand on my point, Steam prices are also the most humane, especially if we mention all this bunch of sales steam is famous for. They were there from the beginning, even though they could've done something similar to PSN in terms of pricing policy, given that steam was and still kinda is de-facto monopoly, since other game stores on pc have only the fractions of steam's profits at the most.

[–] Freesoftwareenjoyer@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Proton is the directX to Vulkan translator

But WINE does exactly that, it translates different Windows APIs. I've been using it to play games (including Steam games) way before Proton was released. It has existed for 30 years now. Proton came 25 years later and according to Wikipedia:

Proton is developed by Valve in cooperation with developers from CodeWeavers.[2] It is a collection of software and libraries combined with a patched version of Wine to improve performance and compatibility with Windows games. Proton is designed for integration into the Steam client as "Steam Play".[3] It is officially distributed through the client, although third party forks can be manually installed.

You can see for yourself that it uses WINE and other software that WINE also uses, like DXVK: https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton

screenshot

Not to mention that Valve managed to solve the problems around anti-cheats and all of this works with minimal tweaking.

If this is truly their achievement, then it is impressive.

Nice of them, to make a revolution and then just let the people actually have it, don’t you think?

If there is a revolution, then it seems that it's mostly an achievement of WINE, DXVK and other developers. It is great that Valve contributes to Free Software, though. But that doesn't change they fact that they also make proprietary software, which is unethical and they are doing it to attract people to their proprietary platform. WINE is licensed under a Copyleft LGPL license, so it's also possible that Valve had no other choice in this case. Since last I checked even SteamOS was proprietary, there are good reasons to doubt their intentions.

Also DRMs are already not the shittiest malware big companies trying to install on your machine, it would be anti-cheat. Why noone talks obout them? There are methods to detect cheaters without installing a rootkit spyware on all the end-users PCs.

I talk about it, but most people don't care about stuff like that at all.

Lol. Sorry, but the games and DRM are not why. The most important reason to it is that we’re losing proprietary software’s technologies. Technologies that might help advace our modern day of living. Also because what they’re restricting is basically a knoledge, and knowledge shoud be free, not because your poor ass can’t own their games.

My argument was that people deserve to be able to control their computers and to do that, they need to be able to control the software. Your reason is very important too. You can watch Richard Stallman's talk for more: https://youtu.be/Ag1AKIl_2GM

And Proton is the example that Valve contributes to FOSS community, unlike literally every other major game company, even CDPR.

That is true.

Thats not even all of it to why i stand on my point, Steam prices are also the most humane, especially if we mention all this bunch of sales steam is famous for. They were there from the beginning, even though they could’ve done something similar to PSN in terms of pricing policy, given that steam was and still kinda is de-facto monopoly, since other game stores on pc have only the fractions of steam’s profits at the most.

What you are saying is true, but before Steam became popular, it was possible to buy used games on physical media for cheap. Now even physical copies of PC games have Valve's DRM, so I blame Valve for destroying the used games market on PC (on consoles it still exists).

[–] CheesyFox@lemmy.world 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Maybe you're right and I'm romanticizing the evil there. I will remain thankful to Valve tho. I never managed to view proprietary saftware as something particularily evil, tbh, but rather as an annoying obstacle we should eventually overcome.

[–] Freesoftwareenjoyer@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago

It's not easy to have freedom when you are a gamer. Steam and Epic Games Store are both proprietary (but for Epic you can use Heroic Games Launcher) and so are most games. There aren't that many libre games and maybe around 10 of them are good. I hope that will change in the future.

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