this post was submitted on 22 Dec 2023
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With support ending for Windows 10, the most popular desktop operating system in the world currently, possibly 240 million pcs may be sent to the landfill. This is mostly due to Windows 11’s exorbitant requirements. This will most likely result in many pcs being immediately outdated, and prone to viruses. GNU/Linux may be these computers’ only secure hope, what do you think?

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[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 28 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (24 children)

Honestly Linux mint can be more user friendly. The problem is that no one else knows how to help people using it

[–] pixelscript@lemmy.ml 52 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (22 children)

Theoretically, when it's up and running. How do you intend to get to that state, though? One has to install it first. And I think that alone is a massive filter.

inb4 someone says:

I did it, and I found it extremely straightforward.

I'm sure you did, Mr. "I hate how much Reddit is pandering to the braindead to the point that I joined an experimental social media platform", I'm sure you did. Clearly, you are a qualitative sample of people who use Windows computers.

Sarcasm aside, look at how railroaded and coddling the Windows 10 installer is. I am certain a large plurality of Windows users' initiative would completely evaporate having to navigate that. And now we want to throw a Linux installation at them?

Factor on top how the vast majority of computer users in all forms that computers take simply take for granted that the OS the computer comes with is a part of the computer. Normal people don't upgrade OSes unless the OS itself railroads them into it (which Win10 already does aggressively whenable), or they buy a new PC that happens to come with it pre-installed. The knowledge required to negotiate an OS wipe and reinstall is not something most people possess, and I expect presenting that knowledge to them on a silver platter is something they'd hastily recoil from.

We're in a catch-22 here. Even if all the pieces for the fabled Linux Desktop are arguably here, actually getting it into the hands of those who would benefit from it most remains prohibitive.

This is also ignoring the elephant in the room: A massive swath of these Windows PCs (Maybe even most of them? I have no backing figures, just a hunch.) are not personal computers, but office PCs that belong to a company fleet. There's a reason Windows utterly dominates the office--Windows rules the IT sphere, at least where personal devices given to employees are concerned. Active Directory? Group Policy? Come on, guys. None of the companies who depend on these management tools are pivoting to Linux anytime soon, and you know it. And if their cheap, bulk order desk PCs don't support Windows 11, they are absolutely getting landfilled.

The only effective mitigation I could think of would be to start a charity that takes obselesced office PCs, refurbishes them to Linux, and provides them at low or no cost to those who need a low cost or free PC. It would get Linux into more hands, but it would also strengthen a stigma that Linux is nothing more than the poor man's OS. The Dr Thunder to Window's Mountain Dew.

[–] EuroNutellaMan@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago (7 children)

Honestly people who can't open a PDF and refuse to learn shouldn't use a computer in the first place.

But, assuming most people aren't complete morons and can actually do stuff if they decide to sit down, Google how to do it and actually do it instead of declaring "I am stupid" and not even try, then even just telling or better yet showing people there's an alternative to throwing your perfectly functioning laptop and buying an expensive new one will go a long way to get new users and save some e-waste.

Of course, installing an OS isn't easy, for linux specifically the hard part is entering the BIOS to disable secure boot and then go into the boot menu to select the USB. After that it's a lot easier. Of course they can also be directed towards Linux computers, like system76's, or Tuxedo's or Laptops with Linux's if necessary.

Naturally to get Linux to dominate the desktop we need the EU to say "know what fuck you, your PC can't come with a preinstalled paid OS" paired with people learning Linux is an option when buying the PC and seeing that it is free vs what like 135€?

[–] pixelscript@lemmy.ml 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

But, assuming most people aren't complete morons and can actually do stuff if they decide to sit down, Google how to do it and actually do it instead of declaring "I am stupid" and not even try

Extremely charitable assumption, I'd say.

I do think most people do in fact possess the ability to follow instructions and succeed at installing Linux from USB. But it all falls apart at the key word "decide". Very few people choose to devote the low, but nonzero, effort required to pull it off.

for linux specifically the hard part is entering the BIOS to disable secure boot and then go into the boot menu to select the USB

I would say, for the demographic I'm thinking of, the hardest part is actually getting the installation media in the first place. Not because it's challenging to do, but just getting over the mental barrier of this (to them) extremely unorthodox method of installing software.

Like, first you have to find the thing and download it. Which, fine, that's typical so far But the thing you download isn't some .exe you run. No, you need to put it on a flash drive. So you need one of those lying around, either empty or with nothing important on it. But you don't just copy the installl file onto it the ""normal"" way, nooo... you also have to separately download some strange utility that burns it onto the flash drive in some special way or else it won't work. Only then do you have to tickle the BIOS.

I understand if you or anyone else reading rolls their eyes at that description because these steps are so boneheadedly simple. And I agree, they are. But it's not so much a question of whether it's hard to do, it's a question of whether it feels safe and natural to do. Which, to you and me, it is. But to the kind of person who, as you say, shouldn't even be using a computer in the first place (but they must anyhow, because trying to live in our modern information age society without one closes too many doors), it's an uncomfortable, dark ritual.

[–] EuroNutellaMan@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Get them to flash it with Ventoy, then they can copy and paste the ISO. Bit easier for dummies and let's them put more .iso files in it without the "but why can't I do more than one".

The BIOS is a lot scarier to noobs. You have to press a button very fast, go into a scary menu that looks different than anything else and full of weird options, to disable something that has secure in its name, and then something about boots to turn on the PC from the USB? But my computer has no boots!

Now this was made easier by windows which can be told to reboot directly on the BIOS or media drive, but it is still more daunting to newbies than to use a program to flash a USB in my experience.

Of course, that's why we need to be there for tech illiterate people to teach them how to read, without assuming they're mentally challenged because they're not stupid they just lack the willingness to try something that looks scary the first time you do it (like most things in life). If I got my mother, who can barely figure out how to open the file manager on windows, to install Linux Mint and some software in it over a phone call, it's possible with anyone.

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