this post was submitted on 06 Sep 2024
1721 points (90.1% liked)

Technology

59589 readers
3300 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Those claiming AI training on copyrighted works is "theft" misunderstand key aspects of copyright law and AI technology. Copyright protects specific expressions of ideas, not the ideas themselves. When AI systems ingest copyrighted works, they're extracting general patterns and concepts - the "Bob Dylan-ness" or "Hemingway-ness" - not copying specific text or images.

This process is akin to how humans learn by reading widely and absorbing styles and techniques, rather than memorizing and reproducing exact passages. The AI discards the original text, keeping only abstract representations in "vector space". When generating new content, the AI isn't recreating copyrighted works, but producing new expressions inspired by the concepts it's learned.

This is fundamentally different from copying a book or song. It's more like the long-standing artistic tradition of being influenced by others' work. The law has always recognized that ideas themselves can't be owned - only particular expressions of them.

Moreover, there's precedent for this kind of use being considered "transformative" and thus fair use. The Google Books project, which scanned millions of books to create a searchable index, was ruled legal despite protests from authors and publishers. AI training is arguably even more transformative.

While it's understandable that creators feel uneasy about this new technology, labeling it "theft" is both legally and technically inaccurate. We may need new ways to support and compensate creators in the AI age, but that doesn't make the current use of copyrighted works for AI training illegal or unethical.

For those interested, this argument is nicely laid out by Damien Riehl in FLOSS Weekly episode 744. https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly/episodes/744

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] WalnutLum@lemmy.ml 13 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Those aren't open source, neither by the OSI's Open Source Definition nor by the OSI's Open Source AI Definition.

The important part for the latter being a published listing of all the training data. (Trainers don't have to provide the data, but they must provide at least a way to recreate the model given the same inputs).

Data information: Sufficiently detailed information about the data used to train the system, so that a skilled person can recreate a substantially equivalent system using the same or similar data. Data information shall be made available with licenses that comply with the Open Source Definition.

They are model-available if anything.

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca -4 points 2 months ago (4 children)

For the purposes of this conversation. That's pretty much just a pedantic difference. They are paying to train those models and then providing them to the public to use completely freely in any way they want.

It would be like developing open source software and then not calling it open source because you didn't publish the market research that guided your UX decisions.

[–] WalnutLum@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You said open source. Open source is a type of licensure.

The entire point of licensure is legal pedantry.

And as far as your metaphor is concerned, pre-trained models are closer to pre-compiled binaries, which are expressly not considered Open Source according to the OSD.

[–] masterspace@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

You said open source. Open source is a type of licensure.

The entire point of licensure is legal pedantry.

No. Open source is a concept. That concept also has pedantic legal definitions, but the concept itself is not inherently pedantic.

And as far as your metaphor is concerned, pre-trained models are closer to pre-compiled binaries, which are expressly not considered Open Source according to the OSD.

No, they're not. Which is why I didn't use that metaphor.

A binary is explicitly a black box. There is nothing to learn from a binary, unless you explicitly decompile it back into source code.

In this case, literally all the source code is available. Any researcher can read through their model, learn from it, copy it, twist it, and build their own version of it wholesale. Not providing the training data, is more similar to saying that Yuzu or an emulator isn't open source because it doesn't provide copyrighted games. It is providing literally all of the parts of it that it can open source, and then letting the user feed it whatever training data they are allowed access to.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)