this post was submitted on 13 Feb 2024
49 points (88.9% liked)

Linux

48323 readers
637 users here now

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

Rules

Related Communities

Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml
nooter692@lemmy.ml
MarcellusDrum@lemmy.ml
cypherpunks@lemmy.ml
cyclohexane@lemmy.ml
d3Xt3r@lemmy.nz
49
NetBSD - thoughts? (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 9 months ago by cashews_win@sh.itjust.works to c/linux@lemmy.ml
43 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

What's the point of it?

OpenBSD = Security

FreeBSD = The main UNIX-like

NetBSD = ???

Based on the name of have assumed it's be used in things like network appliances but in 20 years I've never seen a single device use it.

all 44 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Ramin_HAL9001@lemmy.ml 41 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Yes, it is mostly appliances, but an (informal?) stated goal of NetBSD is too run on all computing hardware.

  • FreeBSD = user-friendly free Unix (plus ZFS and jails 😀)
  • OpenBSD = very secure free Unix (no ZFS 🙁 but has the VMM hypervisor 😀)
  • OpenIndiana = user-friendly free Unix that runs old Solaris software (plus ZFS and zones 😀)
  • NetBSD = runs on any computer chip ever built within the past 40 years (some ZFS support, but no zones, jails, or VMs 🙁)

Naturally, that makes NetBSD a good choice for appliances, especially ones that might only have limited memory.

(Here is a quick explainer on the difference between Jails, Zones, Containers, and VMs)

EDIT1: someone pointed out to me that ZFS is not supported on OpenBSD. Sorry about that everyone.

EDIT2: there is a ZFS driver for NetBSD

[–] ducking_donuts@lemm.ee 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

There’s no ZFS support in OpenBSD is there?

[–] Ramin_HAL9001@lemmy.ml 1 points 9 months ago

Thanks, I had to double check that but you're right, ZFS isn't on OpenBSD. What a shame. Anyway I edited my above post.

[–] flying_gel@lemmy.world 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

But there is zfs support in netbsd... https://wiki.netbsd.org/zfs/

[–] Ramin_HAL9001@lemmy.ml 1 points 9 months ago

According to the wiki, ZFS "works well" but doesn't seem to be as stable as in FreeBSD or OpenIndiana, and is not enabled by default so you have to update your rc.conf file to build the ZFS drivers.

[–] state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de 16 points 9 months ago (1 children)

"I just threw a dead squirrel in a shoe box and installed NetBSD on it." is one of the bash.org quotes I still remember.

[–] Vendetta9076@sh.itjust.works 1 points 9 months ago

And damnit we did it too

[–] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 15 points 9 months ago

From "back in the day" the big claim was that NetBSD would run on anything. Portability seemed to be their major goal.

[–] ryannathans@aussie.zone 11 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Somewhat confused this is in a linux community when none of these OS are linux based. Are we lacking on BSD communities?

[–] cashews_win@sh.itjust.works 16 points 9 months ago (3 children)

We don't have BSD communities and even if we did they probably wouldn't be big enough to get a decent answer.

So I asked here cos there's a high chance that some Linux users will also know something about *BSD.

[–] Cenzorrll@lemmy.world 7 points 9 months ago

You'd probably get better conversations at selfhosted I know some folks there run *bsd network appliances. NASs, firewalls, etc.

[–] scratchandgame@lemmy.ml 1 points 9 months ago

I think no BSD expert will bother this place

[–] makmarian@kbin.social 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

There are some BSD communities on Lemmy/kbin, but they don't have many subscribers yet.
Here are the ones I know of:
@openbsd
@openbsd
@bsd
@netbsd
@bsd
@freebsd
@freebsd
@netbsd
@bsd
@freebsd
@FreeBSD

[–] CommunityLinkFixer@lemmings.world 7 points 9 months ago

Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !openbsd@lemmy.ml, !openbsd@lemmy.sdf.org, !bsd@lemmy.world, !netbsd@lemmy.ml, !bsd@lemmy.sdf.org, !freebsd@midwest.social, !freebsd@lemmy.ml, !netbsd@lemmy.sdf.org, !bsd@lemmy.ml, !freebsd@blendit.bsd.cafe

[–] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It's not like the interests are not aligned.

[–] bizdelnick@lemmy.ml 10 points 9 months ago (1 children)

There's no specific point in any of *BSD. They all are general purpose OSes. NetBSD forked from FreeBSD, OpenBSD forked from NetBSD. Conflicts between developers were main reasons for that.

[–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

Pretty much like all Debian forks. They're all forked from Debian because of conflicts between developers / different ways of seeing things. :P

[–] socphoenix@midwest.social 7 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I think the point is network appliances but it seems mainly used by hobbyists from what I’ve seen.

[–] socphoenix@midwest.social 3 points 9 months ago

If you look at the supported platforms you kind of get an answer here. There’s support for the m68k Macintoshes and other similar ancient devices still.

netbsd platforms

[–] doubletwist@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago

The main point was always portability, and the ability to run NetBSD on basically ANYTHING.

[–] scratchandgame@lemmy.ml 2 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

OpenBSD = Security

It is actually correctless. OpenBSD = Correctness + Simple + Free (free from copyleft too)

FreeBSD = The main UNIX-like

Citation???

NetBSD

maximum portability??

But up to NetBSD 10 (at the time writing it was not released) YOU DON'T HAVE SSL CERTIFICATES INSTALLED IN THE BASE SYSTEM !

That's my warning :)

[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I dont get that "no copyleft" of OpenBSD. Like, anything they do will just be used by Apple, Sony etc. and they dont give shit back

[–] scratchandgame@lemmy.ml 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

OpenBSD try to remove GPL licensed software from base. (with free alternative)

Like, anything they do will just be used by Apple, Sony etc. and they dont give shit back

This is what the OpenBSD team want, and also appreciated by other BSD developers.

[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I have no idea why they would do that to themselves. You develop free software without any protection again abuse?

[–] scratchandgame@lemmy.ml 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

SEE THEIR POLICY, don't complain with me

https://openbsd.org/policy.html

They distribute a Free operating system

The original Apache license was similar to the Berkeley license, but source code published under version 2 of the Apache license is subject to additional restrictions and cannot be included into OpenBSD. In particular, if you use code under the Apache 2 license, some of your rights will terminate if you claim in court that the code violates a patent.

A license can only be considered fully permissive if it allows use by anyone for all the future without giving up any of their rights. If there are conditions that might terminate any rights in the future, or if you have to give up a right that you would otherwise have, even if exercising that right could reasonably be regarded as morally objectionable, the code is not free.

In addition, the clause about the patent license is problematic because a patent license cannot be granted under Copyright law, but only under contract law, which drags the whole license into the domain of contract law. But while Copyright law is somewhat standardized by international agreements, contract law differs wildly among jurisdictions. So what the license means in different jurisdictions may vary and is hard to predict.

The GNU Public License and licenses modeled on it impose the restriction that source code must be distributed or made available for all works that are derivatives of the GNU copyrighted code.

While this may superficially look like a noble strategy, it is a condition that is typically unacceptable for commercial use of software. So in practice, it usually ends up hindering free sharing and reuse of code and ideas rather than encouraging it. As a consequence, no additional software bound by the GPL terms will be considered for inclusion into the OpenBSD base system.

[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Thanks for the info. A very controversial topic.

[–] scratchandgame@lemmy.ml 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

It is controversial for outsider

bringing it to developers is a way to waste their time

https://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#42

[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

A project could compromise by entering into NDA agreements with vendors, or including binary objects in the operating system for which no source code exists

Agreed.

I appreciate that they are blobfree but "no copyleft" has nothing to do with that. Actually, I think Copyleft Linux could not include blobs?

[–] scratchandgame@lemmy.ml 1 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I appreciate that they are blobfree but “no copyleft” has nothing to do with that

Blobs that are redistributable is still included. The 0x things are redistributable under BSD 3 clause license, with an additional clause prohibiting reverse engineering

Which is much free than the gpl

Actually, I think Copyleft Linux could not include blobs?

What??

[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Copyleft means FOSS that can only be used as FOSS. Any changes made need to be published etc. Blobs are not even FOSS, so they can only be implemented as Linux is not FOSS.

with an additional clause prohibiting reverse engineering

What does that mean? You can redistribute binary code that is not Open source, and you are also not allowed to find the source code? How is that free?

[–] scratchandgame@lemmy.ml 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I think you shouldn't argue on why bsd use the bsd license because no one would care, and I will stop here

We should focus on learning and programming, just like Vietnamese these day should be good on Marxism-Leninism that's taught in the university/college to have the right mindset and should't care about anarchism, liberalism, etc and focus on whatever science to help the country.

What does that mean? You can redistribute binary code that is not Open source, and you are also not allowed to find the source code? How is that free?

You can redistribute binary code that is not Open source under a free license

there isn't a problem making OpenBSD nonfree in their opinion, the only problem is they cannot fix the binary code if it have bugs and "can't confirm if the blob contain malware"

Blobs are not even FOSS, so they can only be implemented as Linux is not FOSS.

FOSS???????????

This is source code.

They can exist side by side with linux (like you install gcc and openssh on your linux). I saw microcode are packaged, not installed by default (about arch linux)

If they are linked against linux they must be gpl

Can you read the gpl or that's just long and right and everyone must use it to support GNU

using a license that promote giving code back (put restriction on redistribution) for coreutils, gcc, libc, etc.. has borned Chimera Linux (which point out the quality problem of GNU (in code!) by using BSD userland and LLVM and musl)

[–] Loucypher@lemmy.ml 0 points 9 months ago

And then you have NomadBSD if you need an OS in a usb stick :)