this post was submitted on 12 Dec 2024
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Normally I'd say it was a weakness but the right has significantly departed from reality in most countries for way too long now. It's incredibly rare to find a right-winger who can be present in a discussion without spewing a whole lot of vile conspiracy hate fascist bullshit.
So I find their absence refreshing, desirable and a strength of Lemmy.
I find the same on the left wing. Everytime I put out a slightly right wing position I get attacked and a ton of down votes.
Every time anyone mentions on Lemmy right wing positions it is with only to attack a strawman version that is very removed from what most right wing people think/do.
Downvotes can't actually hurt you.
Personally, I'm fine with saying unpopular things and getting downvoted for it. Mods removing a disallowed viewpoint is something different.
They don't hurt, but they still do not feel nice.
Just remember that the first person to say the world went around the sun got downvoted into oblivion… but it is factually accurate and a giant leap towards out current understanding of the physical realm. I’m happy for people to disagree with my views. Fuck, I probably disagreed with half of them, thirty years ago.
Haha yes, that's usually the issue. I talked down below about getting banned on slrpnk because of some things I was saying. The comment thread with all the highly-upvoted replies getting removed by the mod, and the downvoted stuff intact, is hilarious to me:
https://slrpnk.net/post/14823401/11895951
The same mod also had a habit of arguing with people, while removing their comments but leaving his own side of the argument intact. He's still a moderator there. In my opinion slrpnk needs to spend less time talking about anarchism and more time embodying anarchism.
This moderator behavior here is exactly what you'd see on reddit lol
"We're anarchists."
"Cool. Here's an urgent problem I see for the world that I think we should work on."
"SHIT COCK GET OUT DISALLOWED We don't say that here. You're receiving a gentle ban, to think about what you've done. Be better."
I use solarpunk and disappointed that it happened to you. I felt like solarpunk was the best instance Lemmy has, it feels like it has the least amount of echo chamber. Maybe I'm wrong.
I moderate my own community in solarpunk and I will try my best to not be like the moderator you talk about
I think you will see that these accusations have little substance, are taken out of context and argued in bad faith 🤷♂️
All I've done is link to the comments section illustrating what I was saying had happened, had happened.
Here he is, arguing with people while removing their comments and leaving his comments in place: https://slrpnk.net/post/14823401/11894346
I have no idea why you're defending this guy. Like I said, the communities that try to "protect" their points of view, saying that one viewpoint is permitted in their space but other ones are will get you banned, generally become laughingstocks over time. It's very different from protecting against abuse or racism, when you "protect" your space against people who don't agree with some particular detail the way some particular person has interpreted it, and appoint an arbiter of what are the allowed interpretations, to ban anyone they disagree with. I think you should abandon that practice, and the censorship of ideas you disagree with, if you want to say that you're supporting an instance that respects individual human freedom.
I don't really have a problem with you in general, I was a little bit surprised that you came out swinging to defend this moderator. Maybe this all sounds like sour grapes on my part, but that is usually the result of banning people for disagreeing with you. It sparks a surprising amount of resentment.
We already explained in detail why we supported their moderation decision and you bringing it up again without providing the necessary context in which this happened is just bad faith shit slinging hoping some of it sticks.
That "explained in detail" is your interpretation. In most non-authoritarian communities, nobody has a monopoly on providing the blessed correct interpretation of what happened. I wasn't even speaking to why I was moderated or the interpretations on the part of the slrpnk people that led to it, just what happened. You can provide your interpretation of the events and the reasons why I was temp banned, sure.
https://slrpnk.net/post/14823401
In my opinion, the broader context is that if someone wants to say their opinion, it's okay if they disagree with someone. It's not an "attack" and people don't need to be "defended" against seeing enemy points of view, as long as they're reasonable. You seem to have a different context you like to frame things in, where a post with 10 comments needs to be locked and half the comments removed if they are expressing an incorrect point of view. Like I keep saying, I think you are expressing anarchist trappings while violating anarchist principles in how you run your instance, and also creating a bad reputation for your instance, when you do that. You do you, though.
That thread is wild. I had no clue slrpunk was like that (I only go to some non-political communities on slrpunk).
I don't think slrpnk is "bad" necessarily. The vibe I get is that there's one terrible moderator who the admins are standing up for, because they think he's an anarchist, and they've absorbed the general Lemmy dark pattern that it's okay for a moderator to prune the comments to reflect only the "correct" ideology. But basically aside from that one bad interaction, I really have no problem with slrpnk in general.
Don't get me wrong, I recognize it's a solid instance and I am going to continue engaging in their communities.
Just the admin reaction was a bit strange. I think mods/admins need to try and take a neutral position as much as possible (exceptions notwithstanding).
I know you're not the same moderator they were talking about, but I just want to make you aware of this: https://ponder.cat/comment/1193264
This is not the first time this is discussed and bringing it up out of context is just bad-faith arguing.
I started out aiming to talk about the issue without reference to any past drama, but then someone specifically asked, "censorship from the mods, are you directly experiencing it? If yes, on which instance?" and specifically as related to anarchist points of view. Before today, I'd pretty much forgotten about the whole thing, but it's a pretty valid and interesting question and so I sent some of the citations about when it happened to me.
I can feel through the screen how much you would like to be able to just order me not to be able to discuss this anymore, since my view is officially "incorrect" according to you. Fortunately, that's not how it works.
What are you talking about... This is the experience of most of us that dare slightly disagree on anything. It shouldn't be this way
You're comparing downvotes with "vile conspiracy hate fascist bullshit". The behavior I'm talking about isn't hurtful in the social-rejection way that downvotes are, it goes way way beyond that. Can you see the difference?
I empathize, as a human being you have to realize that it is YOU that has to use politics as a tool & NOT BECOME a tool of Politics (Do you get what I mean) Use both Right & Left policies, I think it was called Moderatism or Communitarianism
It would help if you would be more precise. You are using a "feels like" statement here, which I have to disagree with b/c it is objectively false: all it would take would be to find a singular example wherein it was not true, at which point "every time" is shown to be invalid.
But often that does occur, yes. Sometimes our choice of wording can impede rather than aid in understanding?
And I say this as someone who seems to be more often misunderstood than not, go figure :-|.
I'm sure a counter example exists, but I've been around for year and not seen it yet. Though I'll accept that the exception probably exists.
Please... this is a serious display of availability bias.
Let's face it: the demographic here is just a hyper concentrated version of Reddit, which itself is mostly middle-upper class tweenagers from affluent countries. They get online and get convinced that everyone is just like them.
The average person that hangs out on Reddit-like forums absolutely does not represent the population at large, and any "right-winger who can be present in a discussion without spewing a whole lot of vile conspiracy hate fascist bullshit" has learned that there is no way one can have a reasonable exchange of ideas in any forum like this.
Your points about social bubbles and echo chambers are true, but experiencing the displeasure of having to routinely interact with rightwingers in person verifies that they have fully-fledged conviction in their “vile conspiracy hate fascist bullshit”. They can’t have a reasonable exchange of ideas because they bring nothing reasonable or empathetic to the table.
There are many right wingers here, not conservatives. Liberals are right wing, and lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works are mainly liberal instances.
What rimu was mainly talking about are conservatives, or even far right users. So he wasn't criticizing the whole right wing, he just used the term right wing to refer to those.