Great, please name one of them that doesn't imply complete occupation of Poland by Nazis, I've asked you already several times to do so and you keep avoiding it. To me, a great alternative would have been the mutual defense agreement that the Soviet Union spent the entire 30s pursuing with England, France and Poland, which the latter countries repeatedly rejected. What's your alternative?

Yeah sure, here's one that estimates between 250k and 1.5m

That's a book on migrations and deportations, not a book on casualties, it doesn't seem to support a claim of "hundreds of thousands murdered" which you made in your previous comment, could you please elaborate?

already convinced themselves that all these murdered Poles

Again, you're conflating murdered with deported.

"must have deserved it"

I explicitly mentioned in my previous comment that there were innocents caught in this process of class war and collectivisation of the economy in times of war, which I deeply lament. I just can't envision an alternative reality where, after a decade of denying mutual defense agreements with the Soviets, there was a better alternative to Soviet occupation as opposed to Nazi occupation.

[–] nonailsleft@lemm.ee -1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That’s a book on migrations and deportations, not a book on casualties, it doesn’t seem to support a claim of “hundreds of thousands murdered” which you made in your previous comment, could you please elaborate?

Again, you’re conflating murdered with deported

It most certainly includes direct casualty numbers as well, for Poland and many other conflicts.

Great, please name one of them that doesn’t imply complete occupation of Poland by Nazis

I just can’t envision an alternative reality

Well, I think that's the main issue here. Siding with the nazis, attacking Poland in the rear when they were fighting the nazis, committing horrible crimes against the Polish population and POWs ... You really, really cannot imagine not having to do even one of those

[–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

It most certainly includes direct casualty numbers as well

Good, then we both agree the source doesn't support the "hundreds of thousands murdered in Poland" claim.

For the last time: I have asked at this point in 4 different occasions what was the desirable alternative to a Soviet military occupation of eastern Poland after the Polish, English and French rejection of a mutual defense agreement with the USSR.

The fact that you fail to provide an answer after being clearly prompted 4 different times to give one, is enough evidence to me that you simply don't have one. I will then state the obvious: the Soviet military occupation of Eastern Poland likely prevented hundreds of thousands of Jews, Poles, Roma and other ethnicities from being genocided by the OTHERWISE INEVITABLE Nazi invasion.

You really, really cannot imagine not having to do

No, I really cannot pretend knowing more about defeating fascism in Europe that the nation which ultimately defeated fascism, at the IMMENSE cost of 25 million lives in the struggle against Nazism. It's easy to go with our hindsight and categorise the oppression of bourgeois and nationalist elements of Poland as unnecessary and "barbaric". But you known what, I'm not Polish, I'm Spanish. I'm from the country where the communists did not go far enough, and the result was losing a preventable civil war against fascists which murdered hundreds of thousands of innocents, and the 4 decades of fascism that followed. So, no, my claim is NOT that I know more about fighting fascism than those who actually defeated it.

[–] nonailsleft@lemm.ee 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Good, then we both agree the source doesn’t support the “hundreds of thousands murdered in Poland” claim.

Lol, if you want to try and move the goalposts from my "murdered Poles" to your "in Poland", I can only say that's just childish. Do you think it's better if they died in Russia?

No, I really cannot pretend knowing more about defeating fascism in Europe that the nation which ultimately defeated fascism, at the IMMENSE cost of 25 million lives in the struggle against Nazism.

Hexbear incoming. "They helped defeat the nazis so the bottom line is we can't criticize them".

Imagine how we would look at the US if they had decided it was more profitable to just team up with the nazis instead

[–] AES_Enjoyer@reddthat.com 1 points 55 minutes ago* (last edited 52 minutes ago)

Lol, if you want to try and move the goalposts from my "murdered Poles"

No, my claim is that you're equating deported with murdered when you quote said book talking about "hundreds of thousands of murders", not that murdered after deportation don't count.

Yet again you fail to provide an alternative to the military occupation of Eastern Poland by the Soviet Union. The only possible alternative was Nazi occupation. I'm not trying to justify Katyn, I'm saying that the invasion itself was justified and that's proven by the fact that you cannot even theoretically come up with a better alternative with 80 years of hindsight.

Imagine how we would look at the US if they had decided it was more profitable to just team up with the nazis instead

I don't have to imagine, the US not only teamed up with but propped up fascism all over the globe. I'm Spanish myself, the Franco dictatorship was legitimised by the USA for its entire existence, but I could bring up Suharto in Indonesia, Pinochet in Chile, or an endless list of fascists supported by the USA. Invading eastern Poland and preventing it from being invaded by Nazis isn't "teaming up with the Nazis", I'm sorry that you can't see beyond cold-war propaganda.