this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2025
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This is so funny lol, what exactly is authoritarianism, then? You're just short circuiting because the most default liberal argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny. You don't have to run away from the conversation just because you have a different definition of authoritarianism. As much as we may have different definitions, we live in the same reality, we can discuss the same ground truths of what "authoritarianism" means to you and how we conceptualize those things in different ways.
You seem the most reasonable here, but I see a problem continuing this argument if we can't agree that there are fundamental differences between what is commonly intended as authoritarian government (let's say Russia, Turkey, Iran, China, ...) and the average western country.
It does not mean that western countries are perfect, nor that none shows sign of authoritarianism (Trump's US), nor that nothing should change, or anything of the things I never said in this thread.
Contrary to what you may believe, I replied to this thread to have some fun and a chat around what I find a terrible meme. What I learned is that I should simply avoid any interaction with anyone writing from hexbear since you guys approach politics in a very identitarian way which is something I find dull.
No offence intended, but continue without me. Bye!
Lol: "there's no point having this discussion if you're not going to agree I'm right!"
Why are liberals such massive cowards?
The US, which has an incarceration rate roughly 5x that of China and the single largest prison population in the world, is notably absent from your authoritarian examples (other than blaming it on Trump of course lmao)
That's because the US is not an authoritarian regime: there can be regular elections, there is freedom of speech, separation of powers, etc. It's true that it's far from being perfect https://freedomhouse.org/country/united-states/freedom-world/2024
Now please don't reply that it's a single-party state with two options. It's an old joke, it has some truth in it, but it's just a joke.
Yeah there's differences. In Western countries, a lot of wealthy white people can just chill while their governments enact tremendous violence against minorities to sustain their quality of life. In Russia, Turkey, Iran, China, and other peripheral or semiperipheral countries, the state has to deal with the contradictions head-on instead of exporting them elsewhere, so they have to be more repressive. That's a real difference, but it makes me think that the Western countries are worse than the "authoritarian governments" you list.
In fact, the way you choose Trump's US as the turning point that supposedly shows that authoritarianism just now appeared out of nowhere, shows how one-sided your view of history and politics is. Now the US turned authoritarian. Not when they were literally dousing Mexican immigrants in kerosene in 1916 or doing Jim Crow segregation that inspired the Nazis.
Don't put words that are not mine in my mouth.
Society is constantly evolving with huge differences even noticeable in a lifespan. It means that obviously 100+ years ago, something unacceptable for modern standards was the norm. It also means that it's ridiculous to bring up events of 100+ years ago to criticize the modern world.
To make an example: 80 years ago Europe was literally bombing Germany and Italy and their nazi-fascist regimes, but just a couple of decades later they were forming an alliance that eventually led to the EU. Even if today there are still nazi-fascist movements in the EU, and neo-fascist parties are even leading countries, one must be blinded by ideology to deny that there was an improvement. Improvement does not imply perfection.
Trump is a step back and I find his term horrifying. However, even in Trump's America, even with all the regressions in terms of civil rights, even with the changes to shift even more money towards billionaires, even with what ICE is doing, even with all of that, it remains a country where the vast majority lives a better life than in the large part of the present and past world. Failing to acknowledge that in the name of pure ideology is simply nonsensical. "US = authoritarian regime" or "they exploit the south" may have some truth in it, but it's such an extreme position to be unreasonable and, frankly, childish. It works only here, in a bubble in a corner of internet where everyone reinforce each other's ideas and violently reject any different opinion.