this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2025
28 points (81.8% liked)

Linux

57549 readers
821 users here now

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

Rules

Related Communities

Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0

founded 6 years ago
MODERATORS
 

So a new major version of Debian has been released, and now I see a lot of complaints about various issues stemming from an upgrade. I do not remember this many after an LTS Ubuntu version. I don't want to rush to conclusions like "Ubuntu has money for better quality assurance". I can easily come up with explanations for why these statistics can be skewed, like "Ubuntu-loving plebeians do not come to complain to elite Lemmy users about their puny problems". I'm curious what you think?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] procapra@lemmy.ml 31 points 4 days ago (2 children)

If I had to guess on why people get issues during updates I'd say it's because they add a million third-party repos that point to the specific version of Debian they were running and now that they've upgraded they've got tons of outdated packages from those repos fudging up their system.

[–] gonzo-rand19@moist.catsweat.com 29 points 4 days ago (3 children)

That's why you're supposed to remove 3rd party repos before you update, but nobody reads the release notes anymore, I guess.

[–] meekah@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Why doesn't apk have a routine that disables 3rd party repos when doing a full system update?

[–] gonzo-rand19@moist.catsweat.com 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I don't know, I'm not on the Debian team. This is probably a question for them. I think the mailing list is public if you wanted to ask someone.

[–] meekah@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

Fair enough lol

[–] relativestranger@feddit.nl -1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

it's really not their responsibility to babysit user-initiated configuration changes and third-party software during updates and upgrades. the user makes the changes that go 'off book' and uses 'non debian' software--so that is where the responsibility lies.

You're right, it's not their responsibility.

The software would still be better if it had this feature, or at least some kind of warning or notification to alert users of the problem before they upgrade.

[–] ElectricWaterfall@lemmy.zip 7 points 3 days ago

I read the release notes and followed all the relevant instructions and had zero issues, was a very smooth and easy process.

[–] arty@feddit.org 7 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Doesn’t the upgrade manager of Debian disable them automatically, like Ubuntu does?

[–] gonzo-rand19@moist.catsweat.com 8 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I have no idea, but I don't think the team would add a bunch of useless crap into the release notes for no reason. Doesn't sound very Debian to me.

Here's the link to the relevant section of the release notes, for your reference. It's short.

[–] arty@feddit.org 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Thank you! I guess I prefer Ubuntu’s safety net for upgrades.

[–] LeFantome@programming.dev 4 points 3 days ago

The Debian safety net is not to use third-party repos at all.

[–] porl@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I don't think so, because it shouldn't be an automated process. Doing that blindly is a great way to have orphaned and incompatible package versions left on your machine.

[–] arty@feddit.org 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Is this worse than an upgrade which breaks the system?

[–] porl@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The update won't break the system if you follow the update instructions (remove packages from those repositories first). The Ubuntu way does break the system (see my other comment).

[–] arty@feddit.org 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Well, people do not follow instructions and their systems get broken 🤷 To a much larger extent than an orphaned package

[–] porl@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

That's the point - those mismatched packages often break the system. I had to do probably near a half dozen reinstalls after Ubuntu's "clever" trick wrecked my system. I ran a Debian system from potato through to sarge updating each time with no trouble. My Ubuntu machine had problems virtually every upgrade (though most minor) and required more than a few full reinstalls.

[–] arty@feddit.org 1 points 2 days ago

Your words made me look again into the documentation:

If your APT configuration mentions additional sources besides bookworm, or if you have installed packages from other releases or from third parties, then to ensure a reliable upgrade process you may wish to begin by removing these complicating factors.

I hadn’t realized that "removing these complicating factors" meant removing these packages, not just disabling their repositories. The wording is terribly vague.

Now I don’t say anything against your experience and the conclusions it has led you to.

But my experience was that only repositories were automatically disabled and packages stayed in their place. The upgrades went through smoothly, things did not break. Were I forced to uninstall these packages and look for their replacements afterwards, I’d be quite annoyed. Maybe not as much as you, when you were forced to reinstall the system.

I’ll conclude for myself that both paths can lead to happy outcomes as well as to poor outcomes. Thank you for sharing!

[–] arty@feddit.org 1 points 4 days ago

What do you think, is this release on par with previous ones regarding the amount of complaints?