this post was submitted on 14 Sep 2023
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[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Comrade, we all know lead poisoning and the need for safety gear are capitalist propaganda! Now, get back in the mines! Production must increase 50% this year, and your state-appointed union representative says it can!

[–] sub_ubi@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)
[–] riodoro1@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He was joking, save your whataboutism for “serious” arguments

[–] cyclohexane@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They are not joking. You can see them continuing here: https://lemm.ee/comment/3563759

And this isn't whataboutism (not that it matters). The first commenter ridiculed socialism by using a hypothetical scenario. The second commenter showed with evidence this hypothetical scenario is actually real under capitalism.

[–] sub_ubi@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

When a liberal loses an argument they yell "whataboutism" it's their little white flag

[–] TrousersMcPants@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You're right, America did bad thing, clearly this completely overrides the wrongs of other countries

[–] cyclohexane@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The first commenter is talking a hypothetical scenario of socialism being bad, so the second commenter (the one you responded to) responded with actual example of that same hypothetical scenario happening, but except by a capitalist power (the US). I don't think your response makes sense at all here.

[–] Gorilladrums@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, his response is calling out the whataboutism fallacy. The US doing something bad does not in any way, shape, or form make socialism any less shitty. It's poking fun at the delusional people who still think it's a good ideology despite the overwhelming evidence.

[–] sub_ubi@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Calling something "Whataboutism" infers a belief in American exceptionalism. You should question that belief.

[–] Gorilladrums@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, you're just an idiot. Whataboutism is simply a fallacy. It doesn't infer anything outside of inconsistent logic. If you feel threatened by it then it just shows that you're disingenuous.

[–] sub_ubi@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Explain the logical flaw in this thread's exchange. Bonus: If you're going with tu quoque, explain it without putting words into anyone's mouth.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2022/03/is-whataboutism-always-a-bad-thing

[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee -1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You know, it took until 2003 for Russia to remove leaded gasoline from stations. The Soviets never did it LMFAO

but nice try

[–] cyclohexane@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

EDIT: based on another commenter, OP's claim isn't even factual.

And it took the US until 1996 (after fall of USSR)? Not to mention that it was capitalism (General Motors) that spread the hoax about leaded gasoline being safe, under the guise of scientific research in 1921.

This is not the gotcha you think it is.

[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If it was all an evil capitalist conspiracy, why did the communists go along with it? Hmm?

[–] cyclohexane@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It was not uncovered until much later that this scientific research was in fact a hoax to promote General Motors' business.

This is very easily verified with a web search. I would be happy to guide you to specific sources and readings as well.

[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee -1 points 1 year ago

So, the Soviets couldn't do their own research. Got it

[–] sub_ubi@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Did chatgpt not include this or...?

https://bpb-us-w2.wpmucdn.com/sites.gatech.edu/dist/a/1473/files/2020/09/sovenv.pdf

Nevertheless, the Soviet Union took effective action to protect the population from lead exposure; it banned lead-based (white lead) paint and it banned the sale of leaded gasoline in some cities and regions. While leaded gasoline was introduced in the 1920s in the United States, it was not until the 1940s that leaded gasoline was introduced in the Soviet Union (5). In the 1950s, the Soviet Un- ion became the first country to restrict the sale of leaded gaso- line; in 1956, its sale was banned in Moscow, Leningrad, Kiev, Baku, Odessa, and tourist areas in the Caucasus and Crimea, as well as in at least one of the “closed cities” of the nuclear weap- ons complex (6, 7). The motivation for the bans on leaded gaso- line is not entirely clear, but factors may have included Soviet research on the effects of low-level lead exposure (8), or sup- port from Stalin himself (5). In any event, the bans on leaded gasoline in some areas prevented what could have been signifi- cant population lead exposure. In the United States and other OECD countries, leaded gasoline has been identified as one of the largest sources of lead exposure (9, 10). Lead-based paint is another potentially significant source of population lead exposure.

Bonus: a great example of capital at work,

Along with a number of other coun- tries, in the 1920s the Soviet Union adopted the White Lead Convention, banning the manufacture and sale of lead-based (white lead) paint (11). In the United States, however, the National Paint, Oil and Varnish Association successfully opposed the ban, and lead-based paint was not banned in the United States until 1971 (12).

Two generations of Americans.

[–] BigNote@lemm.ee -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And your point is?

Please do share an example of industrialization that somehow doesn't include unforseen negative health effects.

Go on now, we'll wait.

[–] sub_ubi@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

My point is that capital has successfully fought to put lead into American's blood and lungs for over 100 years.

[–] BigNote@lemm.ee -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So in other words you are unwilling to answer the question.

Got it.

This is precisely why I say that you aren't intellectually serious people.

[–] sub_ubi@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You have one question in your previous comment on the very first line, and it was answered.

Your statement on the 2nd line doesn't really make sense, as I don't think anyone blames people for unforseen negative health effects.

What people are upset about are the forseen, proven, endemic negative health effects being purposefully spread for over a century.