Population-based studies produce estimates of the number of Iraq War casualties ranging from 151,000 violent deaths as of June 2006 (per the Iraq Family Health Survey) to 1,033,000 excess deaths (per the 2007 Opinion Research Business (ORB) survey). Other survey-based studies covering different time-spans find 461,000 total deaths (over 60% of them violent) as of June 2011 (per PLOS Medicine 2013), and 655,000 total deaths (over 90% of them violent) as of June 2006 (per the 2006 Lancet study). Body counts counted at least 110,600 violent deaths as of April 2009 (Associated Press). The Iraq Body Count project documents 186,901–210,296 violent civilian deaths in their table.

[+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -22 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You're going to learn quickly in the coming years that these facts aren't going to prevent you from getting punched in the face and thrown into a cage. I don't think this guy is a Nazi or listed the Indian war as some kind of back handed reference to that. But I do think there's no amount of loss you can suffer that would ever make you realize how badly people like you have fucked everything up the past 10 years.

[–] culprit@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Just amazing response.

punched in the face and thrown into a cage

people like you have fucked everything up

ya, don't mention the Dems support for drone killings and genocide, that has no relation to anything that is currently happening

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_boomerang

[+] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -17 points 1 day ago (3 children)

It doesn't. We need results. Not morally hand wringing. We can do that after we get back the culture

[–] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 5 points 23 hours ago

Respectfully: your point is unclear, but it feels like you've lost the plot.

Maybe reread the thread and see if you're saying what you mean to be saying?

[–] Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You stand for absolutely nothing, you deserve Trump and worse

[–] Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world -3 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

Sure. Keep telling yourself whatever you need to justify all these losses every day. The left is cooked. There's no coming back from this. It's not the fault of the billionaires or the Trump's or Nazis. It's the fault of the left for giving it all up and being so unappealing that those assholes could grow and capture the people the left alienated

[–] culprit@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Handwaving fascist tattoos is ceding too much in my opinion. This should be a moment where liberals have some self awareness and grapple with the use of state power to service the whims of capital, but history doesn't provide a hopeful forecast in that regard.

[–] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 2 points 23 hours ago

I'm glad I'm not in Maine. Before Fetterman this would be easier to rationalize away.

I hope Platner can reassure folks and then serve honorably, because let's be real: despite a lack of known tattoos, I don't think Susan Collins or Janet Mills are actually less extreme. As you've pointed out, support for lawless colonial attrocities is the mainstream, bipartisan consensus.

This debate we're having, imo, is really over whether the person he is today is a morally coherent champion of humanistic values or if there is no such candidate in this race. Which is kind of a bummer.