this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2025
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[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works -2 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

You don't know what legitimacy is?

I don't know how *you" are defining the word in this context.

Our political system rests on the consent of the people, because the people have the power of collective action when they are organized and/or believe en masse that the pathways by which the system claims to represent them are illegitimate

Yeah, that's a pretty big hurdle tho. Even when things get bad, most people are relatively unaffected. Things gotta get real bad for the people to take to the streets in revolt en masse. The masses are generally lazy.

The ruling class wouldn't work so hard to obscure their undemocratic nature if that wasn't the case

And they wouldn't work so hard to propagandize and gerrymander and purge voters if voting didn't threaten them at all.

People don't just accept those kinds of things, they resist and build power that does represent them. That is demonstrable throughout history

They actually usually do accept those kinds of things. The times when they actually rise up are rare enough to record in the history books. Typically most people just follow the path of least resistance.

Voting is not only going out to vote on the day of

Uh, yeah it is. There are plenty of other forms of activity around voting, but voting is just voting.

its people participating in democratic offices when they could be doing grassroots organizing

I don't know who told you you had to choose. Grassroots organizing is crucial for developing the broad foundation for the future. Electoral action secures stable conditions to grow those foundations.

Liberals will give grassroots movements empty lip service, conservatives will lock them up for terrorism. One of the two is objectively more favorable. That's the bottom line.

Voting isn't the total extent of action, it's one tool in a toolbox. When used strategically, it makes the other tools more effective.

It's fucking toxic

Yes, but it's here, and it's real, and it's decided by population numbers your human brain can't truly understand. People, for the most part, are partisan sports-brained idiots. For now, we're either going to try to ride the wave in a way that's least hostile to us, or we're gonna get crushed by the other half of the idiot population.

I was pretty clear and concise with my language. I said what I wanted to say. I'm not going to play point-for-point semantics with you because it would take me writing a several-pages-long essay to fully get my meaning across to someone who is clearly digging in their heels and not willing to take me in good faith. There's also theorists out there who have already done a far better job than I would at that but I doubt you would care to read them.

In short; try putting your ego aside, re-reading what I said, and thinking super hard about it. I've already answered all of your questions, you're just blocking them out at this point.

Astonishing, I could say this word for word to you, and it would be no less correct.

Perhaps the ego position of assuming everyone who disagrees with you is hostile or disingenuous is the biggest obstacle to leftist progress. Perhaps, if you yourself consider the content of their input instead of resorting to the same partisan sports-brain thinking you admit is so toxic, the left could become something more than a thousand mutually hostile splinter groups.

[–] causepix@lemmy.ml 0 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

Astonishing, I could say this word for word to you, and it would be no less correct.

Bullshit. First of all, I haven't asked you any questions dumbass, nor have i picked apart every last sentence and feigned ignorance on your meaning. Especially not on anything having to do with semantics. I would rather take you in good faith than debate the meanings of words.

In case you need me to define my terms, "good faith" and "understanding things" means comprehending what was said in aggregate and being able respond to the argument's essential points, as the writer clearly intended them, rather than taking issue with individual sentences and words used. The latter is what's known as "looking for an argument" and generally indicates you're just going to waste time and be contrarian about anything I say.

Like I could say the sky is blue and you'll find a way to disagree. Good faith is assuming that yes, I must know that the sky simply appears blue only in certain weather and times of day and I must be using a shorthand for the sake of the format. We're not writing policy here, we're conversing on Lemmy. Well, more like trading insults at this point.

~~I also wanted to let you know I've stopped reading your diatribes so you can stop writing them.~~ I'll read it later. I'm not a morning person and I have a lot of other things I'm doing with my time.

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 0 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

First of all, I haven't asked you any questions

Except the central one, the whole subject of the argument.

If I'm eating shit either way, why would I do it in a way that makes it apparent to outsiders that I'm choosing to eat shit?

A question which I answered.

I would rather take you in good faith

Hah! That's why your argument has been based on ad hominems, name-calling, and retorts that boil down to "Nuh uh". Don't bullshit me, you never had any intention of considering anything that conflicted with the conclusions you started with. You made up your mind before I ever said anything, don't try and cry "good faith" now.

than debate the meanings of words.

We wouldn't have to if your entire argument wasn't based entirely on a nebulous definition of "legitimate" which you still haven't defined in a way that makes your argument coherent.

In case you need me to define my terms, "good faith" and "understanding things" means comprehending what was said in aggregate and being able respond to the argument's essential points, as the writer clearly intended them, rather than taking issue with individual sentences and words used.

Your essential point is that participating in elections improperly lends them "legitimacy", which is why we shouldn't do it. But "legitimacy" doesn't have a definition I know of which makes your conclusion true, and when I ask what your definition is you get evasive: name calling, non sequiturs, emotional outbursts.

You're not saying the sky is blue, you're Humpty Dumpty using "glory" to mean "a nice knock down argument". If you don't want people to pick apart your semantics, you have to use words in their common definitions. You are not using "legitimacy" by its common definition, and the interpretation of that word is the essential core of your argument.