this post was submitted on 03 Feb 2024
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And it's almost never something even remotely acceptable. Riza Hawkeye, I get. Misato Katsuragi, sure I guess. Literally every other character I see grown men fawn over is a 14 year old girl. Sometimes I think I picked the wrong hobby, I hate weebs so much
I think a big part of the issue is that anime is aimed at teens usually, so it writes teen characters, but then puts them in INCREDIBLY adult situations. It's easy to either overlook or ignore this character being a high school student when they're a badass knight, or princess in some other universe, ya know?
Exactly this. This is what bothers me in general about people clutching pearls over characters ages. In general, the only way many of these characters actually resemble teenagers or children is that they're small, or that the creator happens to be explicit about their age. But otherwise they're characters created by adults, voiced by adults, written by adults, and otherwise in general portrayed very adult.
Right. Unless something about them is actually represented as a teen, it's pretty natural to just fit them into whatever demographic you're in.
This applies to the 9000 year old dragon loli, too. If they're not portrayed as an ancient elder dragon, and just portrayed as a little girl, they're just a little girl.
Yeah. This character looks identical to every adult in the show she's in, so it's easy to forget that she's canonically 15. I can forgive someone calling her their waifu. Still gross, still weird, but not upsetting. It's very hard to forget that this character is a middle schooler, and if you call her your waifu, you are a problem.
Careful with that edge, old man.
Yeah, the comment is much better without that second paragraph. Sorry to make yours look out of context after editing it
I have no idea who this character is from, but just from that picture I would have no idea how old they would be intending to represent. I could be from 12 to like 25. If there's more context in the show, sure. But that's kind of my point.
I mean, they argue the senile old men in these same works are 30, so the ages are very much a joke.
Well, I have yet to meet anyone capable of or willing to pull off a convincing Motoko Kusanagi...
So Im just gonna have to build her.
EDIT: Actual honest to god question: are there /any/ popular female anime characters that even approach her level of intellect and collectedness?
Intellect is hard to compare across fields, but Balalaika, Nausicaa and Yui Ikari come to mind just from classic anime.
Ok so i guess my weeb credentials are at stake here but uh:
Nausicca is from the movie ... Nausicca and the Valley of the Wind? I think I saw that once, quite a long time ago?
Balalaika... I /think/ thats also a movie as you say from decades ago at this point, but thats all I remember.
Yui Ikari isnt actually ringing any bells.
Either way like, this baffles me.
Many, maaany left leaning weaboos/anime enthusiasts are very critical of Western Media and Non Animated Movies along basically feminist media analysis theory.
But this just for some reason does not apply to anime, otherwise theyd be just as critical of a lack of female (or female coded) characters that, you know, are strong, powerful, (for these two it obviously doesnt have to be in the sense of like physical or combat capability) intelligent, responsible and capable.
Instead in the anime realm its largely devolved into just 90s TV soap opera-esque, Im more of a Rachel than a Phoebe, but for various absurd, often highly emotional and volatile and irresponsible anime characters.
Again, unless Ive missed some new, actually interesting anime series or movie that portrays women without heavily relying on, and ideally actually meaningfully challenging basically harmful stereotypes of gender roles.
Nausicaa is from that movie, which is an adaptation of the first quarter of the manga of the same name. She is an exceptionally selfless, patient and empathetic village chief who tries to keep the peace between two stronger neighbours (and the Ohmu). She is probably the most knowledgable person in the setting regarding the Ohmu (and the forest in general), and while there are many others who are physically stronger, she has nerves of steel and can handle pressure much better than anyone else.
Balalaika is the Don of Hotel Moscow in Black Lagoon, and probably the most powerful named character. She is intelligent and well-read, and a former army officer.
Skip the next paragraph if you want to avoid spoilers.
Yui Ikari is Shinji's mother from Neon Genesis Evangelion. She finds herself in the middle of a conspiracy to end the world, and finds no one she can trust. So she comes up with a plan that starts with her death, and ends with saving her son and most of humanity.
Because anime was, in many respects, much better in this regard than mainstream Western media. I say 'was' because anime has now become a lot more mainstream than it was.
Anime was greatly influenced by the Japanese youth protests of the 1960s. Hayao Miyazaki, who wrote the Nausicaa manga (and directed that and many other films, including Spirited Away and last year's How Do You Live?) was a union leader. His works include pacifist, environmentalist, Marxist and feminist themes - Nausicaa herself would go on to inspire a great number of anime heroines.
Focusing more on feminism and well-written female characters, there was the Year 24 group, who produced such classics as the Rose of Versailles (dated by modern standards, but revolutionary for its time). And there was Kunihiko Ikuhara, the madman who directed Sailor Moon, a very mainstream show (in Japan) aimed at young girls, and put two well-written lesbian characters in it. Ikuhara also directed Revolutionary Girl Utena, a story of love, breaking social rules, the price one pays for such transgression, and how such a sacrifice can inspire others to live better lives.
(Also, I don't really care about the 'strong heroines' who defeat the villains. I prefer well-written but far from perfect characters. Balalaika is at best the lesser of the many evils. Oscar, Uranus, Neptune and Utena are all too proud to value their own lives. Lain is on either side of a mental breakdown, and so on. But they are all memorable characters, and to me, that's what matters.)
Thanks for the refresh! I really appreciate that you wrote that all out, Ive certainly got some rewatching and first time watching to do now =)
I definitely have never even seen Black Lagoon, must have just heard about it in passing at some point.
And I'm now ashamed I didnt remember Shinji's mother name. Welp.
I had heard of Revolutionary Girl Utena but never managed to watch it, had not heard of Rose of Versailles, and of course have heard of and watched Sailor Moon, ... and having discussions with other kids at the time who did not even believe that two of the Sailors were lesbians in the actual Japanese version but that this was censored and rewritten for the American version.
And yes, agreed that well written characters do a good job of showing flaws, but also being capable of meaningfully impacting the world around them or other characters, and are hugely more compelling than basically cardboard cutouts.
Black Lagoon is a gangster series and one of the few anime with a good English dub.
Heh, I remembered that Shinji's mother had the same name as one of the K-on! girls, but had to look up which.
Utena is an amazing anime, but it is very symbolic, so not everyone likes it.'
The Rose of Versailles is a fictional account of French queen Marie Antoinette and her bodyguard Oskar, in the years leading up to the French Revolution. It broke the conventions of the shojo / josei genre, with darker themes and social criticism (usually by making fun of the nobility). But to a modern audience, it might seem too sentimental and dramatic.
There are, though not a lot.
Id genuinely be interested in watching something that includes such characters, even if its older, i may have missed some good hidden gem, or have just not watched something in quite a while at this point.
Balsa from Seirei no Moribito. If GitS is my #2 anime of all time, then SnM is my #1 and one of the reason is Balsa being such an absolute badass.
I just wish it had been more popular, because it's a masterpiece T_T
I see people mention, Planetes which I also adore, but I'm not sure the pilot is that much of an intellectual, in my memories. Although I suppose that compared to the rest of the crew... :)
I haven't seen Ghost In The Shell yet because the watch order is intimidating, but lemme think.
The only lead female character who's portrayed as extremely intelligent that I can think of is Makise Kurisu, but if we expand that to be female characters who have their shit together and don't exist just for the male protagonist to interact with, the list grows a bit.
Like, everyone from Noir is portrayed as extremely capable. The female characters in Witch Hunter Robin. Most of the female characters in the first season of Last Exile. The second season's main characters are all girls, and all fully capable pilots and navigators. Planetes does good by its female cast, at least after the first few episodes. Haibane Renmei has an entirely female main cast, and while they don't exactly have their shit together, nobody in that world really does. The only female character in Super Crooks is the only character who has their shit together. Canaan is almost a Mary Sue, she's supernaturally good at everything she does. The female characters in Akudama Drive fit in this list. The characters in Baccano (Miria and Lua notwithstanding).
And I've just realized you said popular. Uhhhh
Besides Makise Kurisu I got nothing lmao. Winry Rockbell and Riza Hawkeye maybe?
Hey, I'll take actually good anime that features non extremely stereotypical female characters, even if they are not super popular, any time, I appreciate the write up!
EDIT: Im not super sure what you mean by the watch order being intimidating for GiTS though?
If I were to recommend a watch order, I'd say the first, main, hugely popular movie in its original theatrical release form (subs or dubs you pick, as the subs are astonishingly good for the time),
then SAC, then 2nd Gig,
then I think theres a movie ive not ever been able to find decently dubbed that takes place i think after both SAC and 2nd Gig,
(Yep, this is GiTS: Innocence)
then theres Solid State Society, a third anime season.
Also, theres llike a whole bunch of functionally remasters of the original movie that basically feature jarring 3d animated scenes and/or basically pretty minor dialogue changes or different VAs, sort of. Im frankly of the opinion the original is the best and the other ones are not really worth your time.
Ok, now, significsnt real world time passes and we end up with basically a second canon set of 2 anime series and one movie.
I say second canon, because basically these are reworks or reimagined or retcons that are supposed to be prequels, but they actually conflict a good deal with a lot of stuff established in original canon.
The order for these is
GiTS: Arise (anime season basically format called 'Alternative Architecture', OVA format just called 'Arise')
GiTS: The New Movie (uh, movie)
GiTS: SAC 2045 (anime season) Note: ive not got around to seeing this one and frankly cannot tell if its based more on the original canon, the new Arise canon, or some extremely confusing hybrid of both.
I would consider those like supplementary, optional. Call them uh psuedo canon if you would, by the way i personally look at GiTS, anyway.
EDIT 2: oh shit, right, the live action movie with scarjo. Obviously this is basically a reimagining intended for western audiences, but honestly i think they actually did a decent job with it.
Not as good as the original movie by any means, but i was surprised that they actually handled the controversy of getting a white woman to play a character who is astoundingly associated with japanese culture and is almost certainly 'canonically' Japanese in a reasonable way that actually makes a ton of sense in their reworked major plot arc.
Trying so hard not to spoil here haha.
Id basically consider this one basically non canonical to the basically canonically and timeline consistent first two movies and 3 anime seasons, but a decent way to end a kind of total GiTS experience.
EDIT 3: jfc ok now i get what you mean by intimidating watch order god damnit.
Its been a while since ive watched any GiTS and basically ive now had to go back and edit my post even more, haha.
Anyway, final note: A lot of people seem to think the original movie is not actually canonically consistent with the subsequent 3 anime series and Innocencd, but i honestly have no idea why. There are no inconsistencies or directly contradictory elements between them, as there are with the Arise stuff.
Usually after I finish one series, I end up not deciding what to start watching the next day until it's time to put something on, but I want you to know this comment is what helped me decide to start Ghost In The Shell immediately after I finish Boogiepop tomorrow
Hooray! Sorry it had so many edits, been about a decade since I last watched any GiTS beyond the scarjo movie lol, had to go look everything up again.
I stand by my unpopular statement that anime is child beauty pegeants for cowards.
There are exceptions to this, but uh yeah phew theres a lot more not exceptions.
Wtf?
Misato isn't exactly "acceptable" either since she sexually assaulted a 14 year old boy because she's depressed.
Man, the original Evangelion got REALLY messed up with sexual boundaries at the end of it in general
I'm not saying she's acceptable as a person, I'm saying I'm not gonna be upset about someone finding her attractive, unless they specifically like her because she's a pedophile
If one had the sense to like anything remotely acceptable, he'd had enough sense to keep it to himself...