this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2025
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Average convo with liberals when Ukraine comes up (lemmy.ml)
submitted 2 months ago by bubblybubbles@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml
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[–] davel@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

that’s contradicted by the fact that it’s mostly Ukrainians themselves fighting, even if armed by allies.

Which Ukrainians?

  • The oligarchs running the state?
  • The Banderite fascists?
  • The eastern & southern Ukrainians, who, after the Maidan coup, declared independence from an unelected government, and were subsequently terrorized by the Banderites for nearly a decade, with tacit and overt support from the Ukrainian and US governments?
  • The western Ukrainians who want the war to end?
  • The men being kidnapped off the streets and pushed to the front lines against their will?

 
Previously: If not for the US/NATO, this war wouldn’t have happened in the first place.

[–] MyMindIsLikeAnOcean@piefed.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Can’t tell if you’re talking about the Russians or the Ukrainians.

My argument isn’t so much that Ukraine is good…it’s that Russia is worse.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Worse for whom?

[–] MyMindIsLikeAnOcean@piefed.world -5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

For the world. Giant repressive capitalist dictatorships that are full of fascists and invade other countries aren’t good for anybody…even if some of the people they’re killing are also fascists.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

For the world.

If by the world you mean the imperial core, then yes.

Giant repressive capitalist dictatorship

You mean the United States?

full of fascists

I don’t think you understand fascism. Previously:

[–] MyMindIsLikeAnOcean@piefed.world -2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Your position is Russian isn’t imperial or fascist?

…or is it that because the USA or your so-called “imperial core” is more fascist and/or imperial that we should ignore Russia’s?

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Your position is Russian isn’t imperial or fascist?

Yes. Previously:

Russia, if given its druthers, would be imperialist, but since it presently doesn’t, it presently isn’t. Putin tried to join NATO once, to join the imperialist club, but that was rejected, because the US wanted Russia Balkanized & plundered instead. Russia has figured out it’s better off allying with Global South countries than attempting imperialist adventures upon them. And this war has accelerated that allyship.

Previously:

It’s not like there are no fascists in Russia. There’s Aleksandr Dugin (who people keep absurdly claiming is Putin’s right-hand man), and there was Western liberal darling Alexei Navalny.

your so-called “imperial core”

The term is hardly mine and hardly new. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Imperial_core

is more fascist and/or imperial that we should ignore Russia’s?

It is, though that doesn’t mean we should altogether ignore Russia’s faults; it too is a capitalist state, a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. Russia isn’t anti-imperialist by ideology but by circumstance.

[–] MyMindIsLikeAnOcean@piefed.world -2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It sounds a lot like you agree the conflict isn’t about good vs evil.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 months ago

Sure, “good vs evil” is the stuff of superhero movies and corporate media.