this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2023
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[–] Cowbee@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

There are numerous critical flaws of what you just said.

  1. Why would Guards support you? If you become a robber-baron, hiring muscle to protect your factories from the Workers, you have to deal with the fact that either you don't actually control and own your factories, the mercenaries do, or accept that you have become a micro-state.

  2. What is preventing any of these micro-states from absorbing others and becoming a full state? Nothing.

  3. Why would anyone willingly work for you, unless it already reached the point where you are essentially a state? They could make more money simply by working cooperatively.

Private Property cannot maintain itself unless you have a monopoly on violence and thus a state.

Cooperatively owned property, on the other hand, supports itself and is maintained cooperatively. There are no avenues to realistically overturn it.

[–] MacNCheezus@lemmy.today 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I don't think you're wrong about the idea of micro-states forming, but I don't see how a communist cooperative isn't a micro-state by the same definition as well.

As far as cooperatives being naturally more efficient, I highly doubt that. Centralized structures are far more conducive to decision making. While your commune is still debating about whether both Marx' and Engels' birthdays should be a day off, the capitalists are already working.

Also, the idea that property somehow magically supports itself by virtue of being communally owned is complete fantasy. You clearly have no actual experience and are just spouting off a bunch of dogma you've read somewhere.

[–] Cowbee@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

If everyone has equal power, there's no statist component.

Cooperative structures are not inherently more efficient, but Cooperative work structures would result in higher paid workers. The strawman about a lack of decision making in the Cooperative could easily be flipped, while the Workers are already producing, the Capitalists are figuring out how to extort their customers and workers better.

Communally owned property supports itself by virtue of being communally owned. If nobody has an individual claim to it, someone who tries would be contested by the community, hence its communal ownership.

You only have strawmen and vibes, no actual points.

[–] MacNCheezus@lemmy.today 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I really hope you get to fulfill your dream of living in a commune one day so you'll have some actual first hand experience of what you are talking about.

I'd pay good money to see your face the first time you get outvoted on something you think you are absolutely right about.

[–] Cowbee@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago

What an excellent way to dodge literally everything I pointed out and feign a logical high ground. Perfectly smug and absolutely irrelevant.