this post was submitted on 07 Mar 2026
224 points (83.9% liked)
Memes
54854 readers
1371 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 6 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Yeah there isn't a nation-state on earth that is a friend to the working class.
There are several socialist countries. What do you mean by "friend to the working classes" if not socialism?
State capitalism is not socialism, and it is not a friend of the working class.
Sure, but I'm not talking about the ROK or Singapore, I'm talking about socialist countries like the PRC and Cuba.
"State capitalism" is not a thing
Sure buddy, sure.
Take it this way, then:
Socialism is when the workers are in control of the means of production. Supposedly, socialist countries accomplish this by the state being in control of the means of production and the workers supposedly in control of the state. But in reality, the workers are not in control of the state, so the workers are not in control of the means of production, and it's not socialism.
Can you justify this statement?
How much control does the average worker have over the state? Practically none.
The Chinese political system is based on whole-process people's democracy, a form of consultative democracy. The local government is directly elected, and then these governments elect people to higher rungs, meaning any candidate at the top level must have worked their way up from the bottom and directly proved themselves. Moreover, the economy in the PRC is socialist, with public ownership as the principle aspect of the economy. Combining this consultative, ground-up democracy with top-down economic planning is the key to China's success.
I highly recommend Roland Boer's Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance. Socialist democracy has been imperfect, but has gone through a number of changes and adaptations over the years as we've learned more from testing theory to practice. Boer goes over the history behind socialist democracy in this textbook.
The working classes in socialist countries are the ones dictating the state and its direction.
Who do you think controls the state in China? Do you know how the Chinese state is structured? Do you know how Chinese democracy and political involvement works? What sources did you use to study China, the Chinese government and China’s democratic methods?
Out of curiosity who do you think controls the state in China? Do you know how the Chinese state is structured? Do you know how Chinese democracy and political involvement works? What sources did you use to study China, the Chinese government and China's democratic methods?
Not the workers.
Well if you think that it's capitalism you think the primary contradiction in china is between the bourgeosie and the proletariat. Which of these control the state?
The workers disagree with you
So you're a troll? You are just saying things, you haven't investigated at all?
Respond the other questions, give us data, sources, speak with substance if you have any, unless you're just repeating propaganda, and you wouldn't do that, right?
Not OC, but I do think its impossible that the goverment not made of worker class representstives can be socialistic (or where worker class is underrepresented).
Just by the simple fact they do not represent the wast masses, they will ultimately be disconnected from workers and/or serve their own petty bourgeoisie interests.
Agreed?
Even ancient Greeks knew that when the representatives in democracy come from rich families they always serve their families first (see sortition, a practice they used to offset that).
You are a polish nationalist who has done no research on China and thus should stop speaking on it until you do
We've been through this before, so I'm not sure why you're repeating this misunderstanding. Administration is not a class, just like "intellectual" is not a class. In socialist states, the working classes do control the state, and this is expressed by the working classes being the primary beneficiaries of social labor. The Greeks had an entirely different mode of production and distribution, so not sure why you bring them up.