this post was submitted on 12 Feb 2024
1392 points (92.0% liked)
Memes
45727 readers
1090 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
The thing is that Hitler didn't make the gas chamber right away in 1933. It's a process. But wasn't it already fascist in 1933? Was nazi Germany fascist when Hitler was elected? Before that, when the nsdap started to be powerful enough to influence the politics? Or only once the weimar Republic was officially dead? What if he had kept the name of the weimar Republic, would it still not be fascist then?
Take trump: he's not president yet, and he didn't destroy democracy yet. But he already tried a coup. Isn't he a fascist himself? What does he need to do to actually make fascism happen?
Good point, it's always a tendency and I don't know where the cut off is. Subjectively I'd say Hungary is nowhere near there. Especially since as I see it, our government's tendencies don't come from genuine ideological conviction but selfish interest. If anything it's an oppressive oligarchy, but not fascism. I hope I'm not just coping.
Wikipedia's definition:
In my understanding, only some of these things can be argued to be true about Hungary, and none of them to an extreme extent. Of course I don't know the future and I won't excuse the crimes of my government, again I left the country because of them, but I want to be realistic and fascism isn't a word I would throw around lightly.
The thing about fascism is that it doesn't require true believers at the top. It doesn't matter if the leaders care only about their own personal wealth and power if they're willing to promote fascist ideals to their followers.
Nowhere did I find in the definition of fascism that they the fascists can't only be in it for their own gain.
Fascism (n) -
a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
In fact, I'd argue that fascist leaders are almost exclusively in it for their own gain, but that's just my .02$
The natural social hierarchy is racism in other words. And Hungary is leader in Europe to promote anti-immigration laws.
Hungary is also punished by Europe because it doesn't respect many human rights, especially regarding media, police, and separation of state powers. I don't know the details, so maybe you have more about it?
The problem with fascism is that it is a conservative slippery slope. It starts with mild racism or protectionism or isolationism, add authority, which slowly becomes nationalism and then suppression of opposition. Starts conservative laws to remove rights from groups of people (minorities, women,strangers...).
It's a boiling frog problem. You can only be sure when a coup happen, but sometimes you don't even need a coup. Hitler was elected. Purges are a definite proof, but they are often hidden.