this post was submitted on 14 Feb 2024
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That's because Europe has actual experience with having their privacy invaded and it wasn't just to show you relevant ads. During the war my grandparents burned letters and books after reading them. And they had nothing to hide either - and all of the ones they burned were perfectly innocent and legal... but even those can be taken out of context and used against you during a police investigation.
The UN formally declared privacy as a human right a few years after the war ended. Specifically in response to what happened during the war.
A lot of the data used by police to commit horrific crimes was collected before the war, for example they'd go into a cemetery home and find a list of people who attended a funeral six years ago, then arrest everyone who was there. You can't wait for a government to start doing things like that - you have to stop the data from being collected in the first place.
Imagine how much worse it could be today, with so much more data collected and automated tools to analyse the data. Imagine if you lived in Russian occupied Ukraine right now - what data can Russia find about you? Do you have a brother serving in Ukraine's army? Maybe your brother would defect if you were taken hostage...
Well, it defers a lot from country to country.
For example, populations in the Scandinavian countries have high trust in their governments and let them collect a lot of private data. They have personal identification numbers that contain lots of personal information that many institutions (e.g. banks) have access to unless you ask for privacy protection. All of this also makes interaction with institutions very streamlined and easy, but it comes at the cost of less privacy.
In Norway and Sweden, for example, anyone can access personal income data about anyone living in the country. Full transparency, more or less.
On the other hand, a country like Germany does not issue personal identification numbers because the population is highly skeptical of data collection and registration, a remnant from the wars. Germany is much more bureaucratic and its government less efficient, but Germans prefer the arm's length approach to government data collection and almost no data is publicly accessible.
In Germany you have to show some kind of ID - which gets registered in a system - to buy a SIM card, something I never had to do in other countries I lived in, in Europe.
There is no other point in having such a requirement for stores to record people's ID when they buy SIM cards than to associate phone numbers with people for surveillance.
The UK too doesn't have ID cards or ID numbers for people and yet has the biggest densitity of surveillance cameras in Europe, automated license plate reading cameras in major roads and highways and, as shown by the Snowden revelations, has an even more broad civil society surveillance system in place than the US and, by the way, when that came out the political response was simply to retroactivelly make legal any part of it which weren't.
ID numbers are just one big "look over here" distraction from what's really going on.
I didn't say that Germany doesn't collect data for basic protection of its citizens and for terrorism prevention (or, some may see that as surveillance). It does. It's just not shared in a big central system that other institutions and private companies can pull from like it is in the Scandinavian countries or the Netherlands.
E.g. if you move from one place to another in Germany, the government institutions in the two locales don't talk to each other about that. So, for tax and social benefits purposes, you have to tell each one that you moved. The federal government is also not involved.
Edit: spelling
Somehow the rest of Europe doesn't need to get people's IDs when SIM cards are sold "for basic protection of its citizens and for terrorism prevention". Further, the idea that "terrorists" won't just buy their SIMs in a different country and bring them over and using them in Germany is laughable (the only reason I did so for the couple of months I lived in Germany is because I was a heavy data user).
Also from what I've seen in Britain, having government entities unable to properly share data AND having a disproportionately high level of civil society surveillance are not at all incompatible.
I would've tended see the same association between no-IDs and no-crossing of data with low-surveillance that you seem to be making here if I hadn't seen first hand how that is not at all linked (or maybe it's actually inverselly correlated) during the time I lived in Britain.
You're not right about the rest of Europe not needing ID for a SIM. In Denmark, you need ID. In Sweden, you need ID. In Norway, you need ID. I'm sure you need in many other countries as well.
In the US, you also need an ID to open an account.
Right, I'll grant you that - can only really speak for countries were I actually bought SIMs.
I know for sure you don't need an ID in Portugal, Spain, The Netherlands, the UK and Canada, or at least you didn't back when I did bought a SIM card over there (either because I lived there or stayed there long enough that it was worth it to get one for cheaper mobile data).
Funny enough, the countries you listed (except Germany) are ones were somebody else was pointing out that people trust the authorities and are more ameanable to the authorities having lots of information about them. (I just checked back and it was actually you who said that ;))
Personally I was quite shocked that Germany, the country which had both Nazism and in some parts Communism, and were one would expect people to shy-away from anything with even the slightest wiff of Gestapo/Stasi to it, to have very explicit and obvious laws in place to make sure the authorities knew who had what mobile phone line were in place and accepted by the population.
In Germany, it's an anti-terrorist precaution. Criminals love anonymous prepaid SIMs.
You do need ID in the Netherlands, Belgium, and Spain now. I think it's the same in most EU countries. Same thing. Anti-terrorism.
Wouldn't they solve this by adding a level of indirection? Like offering to pay some schlub cash with a nice margin to buy several prepaids for them?
I looked around for The Netherlands and I found no such requirement for Pre-paid SIM cards.
Are you confusing the ones with a contract where naturally the actual mobile company wants to make sure you are who you say you are with it being a general rule for all SIMs? Can you point me at the source of that information (in Dutch would be fine, even in German I can probably read it)?
Yes, I may be thinking of a contract in the Netherlands. They may still be among a few countries allowing prepaid SIMs without registration. But I'm not sure.
I see...