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153

What's the deal with Docker? (lemmy.zip)

submitted 8 months ago by AlexPewMaster@lemmy.zip to c/selfhosted@lemmy.world

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I never understood how to use Docker, what makes it so special? I would really like to use it on my Rapsberry Pi 3 Model B+ to ease the setup process of selfhosting different things.

I'm currently running these things without Docker:

Mumble server with a Discord bridge and a music bot
Maubot, a plugin-based Matrix bot
FTP server
Two Discord Music bots

All of these things are running as systemd services in the background. Should I change this? A lot of the things I'm hosting offer Docker images.

It would also be great if someone could give me a quick-start guide for Docker. Thanks in advance!

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[–] TCB13@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

Docker and the success of containers is mostly due to the ease of shipping code that carries its own dependencies and can be run anywhere

I don't disagree with you, but that also shows that most modern software is poorly written. Usually a bunch of solutions that hardly work and nobody is able to reproduce their setup in a quick, sane and secure way.

There are a many container runtimes (CRI-O, podman, mirantis, containerd, etc.). Docker is just a convenient API, containers are fully implemented just with Linux native features (namespaces, seccomp, capabilities, cgroups) and images follow an open standard (OCI).

Yes, that's exactly point point. There are many options, yet people stick with Docker and DockerHub (that is everything but open).

In systemd you need to use 30 different options to get what using containers you achieve almost instantly and with much less hussle.

Yes... maybe we just need some automation/orchestration tool for that. This is like saying that it's way too hard to download the rootfs of some distro, unpack it and then use unshare to launch a shell on a isolated namespace... Docker as you said provides a convenient API but it doesn't mean we can't do the same for systemd.

but I want to simply remind you that containers are the successor of VMs (virtualize everything!), platforms that were completely proprietary and in the hands of a handful of vendor

Completely proprietary... like QEMU/libvirt? :P

[–] loudwhisper@infosec.pub 3 points 8 months ago

but that also shows that most modern software is poorly written

Does it? I mean, this is especially annoying with old software, maybe dynamically linked or PHP, or stuff like that. Modern tools (go, rust) don't actually even have this problem. Dependencies are annoying in general, I don't think it's a property of modern software.

Yes, that’s exactly point point. There are many options, yet people stick with Docker and DockerHub (that is everything but open).

Who are these people? There are tons of registries that people use, github has its own, quay.io, etc. You also can simply publish Dockerfiles and people can build themselves. Ofc Docker has the edge because it was the first mainstream tool, and it's still a great choice for single machine deployments, but it's far from the only used. Kubernetes abandoned Docker as default runtime for years, for example... who are you referring to?

Yes… maybe we just need some automation/orchestration tool for that. This is like saying that it’s way too hard to download the rootfs of some distro, unpack it and then use unshare to launch a shell on a isolated namespace… Docker as you said provides a convenient API but it doesn’t mean we can’t do the same for systemd.

But Systemd also uses unshare, chroot, etc. They are at the same level of abstraction. Docker (and container runtimes) are simply specialized tools, while systemd is not. Why wouldn't I use a tool that is meant for this when it's available. I suppose bubblewrap does something similar too (used by Flatpak), and I am sure there are more.

Completely proprietary… like QEMU/libvirt? :P

Right, because organizations generally run QEMU, not VMware, Nutanix and another handful of proprietary platforms... :)

[–] towerful@programming.dev 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I use ghcr, i have no issues pulling images from amazon ECR or wherever.
Docker got there first with the adoption and marketing.

Automation tools like ansible and terraform have existed for ages, and are great for running things without containers.
OCI just makes it a hell of a lot easier and portable

[–] TCB13@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

I’ve been using ansible as well and it’s great.