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this post was submitted on 28 Mar 2024
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Way easier than having them wear an armband.
So, hot take here: preface this with saying I absolutely condemn the surveillance by Israel here.
But I think it's wrong to judge a nation by what they've gone through themselves, with an attitude of " they should know better". Just because the Holocaust happened, doesn't mean that Israel has better morales or values, or that they would never do such things themselves. Humans are humans. With the wrong people in power, horrible things happen.
It's perfectly reasonable and necessary to argue that Israel is currently violating human right laws. We should keep doing that.
It is not reasonable to keep pointing at the holocaust and nazi germany as a stick of " look, you became the thing you suffered under", unless in a context of learning from history. "You should know better" creates unreasonable expectations where some nations ought to have higher morales somehow.
Edit: I ment condemn, not condone. Apologies
That’s because they ought to have better morals than Nazis.
I'm gonna play devils advocate here... it's easy to say "don't hate these people in that other country" when these two countries have decades, if not hundreds of years of violence, hatred and conflict between them. You cannot look at what's happening while ignoring the past 600+ years.
In ww2, there was no actual reason to hate jews. In this situation, the two parties have had actual conflict with actual victims for hundreds of years.
It only takes the wrong people in power at the right time to have this timebomb explodes like it did.
Is it right? Hell No. But the morales at play here are grounded in a vastly different way than with the nazis.
This isn't it. Arab Jews and Arab Muslims lived in the region together mostly peacefully. Sure, some violence happened, but nothing particularly unusual. The violence really started to happen when the European Jews came over, purchased land and farms that were traditionally worked by Arab Muslims, then created a rule to only hire Jews to work the land. It ripped any possibility of continuing existing together away because one of the groups decided it would stop cooperating with the other.
The idea that Jews and Muslims must fight is bullshit. No matter where you look in the world there's some conflict, but this region has been home to Jews and Muslims together for centuries and they mostly lived together fine. The current conflict is modern, not historic, as much as they will say otherwise.
600? I mean there were Jews in Palestine then too, and very occasionally unforgiveable things were done to them, but the people who are now running Israel weren't there for any of that. These are people who migrated to Israel less than 100 years ago and their descendants.
Thanks, just commented on a different post where I said 600 years too. It was an arbitrary number from me, probably misremembering a fact I heard on a podcast about this conflict. The guest on the podcast said something along the lines of "this conflict comes from way before ww2" but I might have misremebered the context or actual years.
Apologies.
I've put together a long list of historical events of the conflict here if you're interested. The concept of Transfer in Zionism goes back to the late 1800s while the dispossession of Palestinians started around the 1920s.