Server indexes of places for newcomers to join can be instrumental for Fediverse adoption. However, sudden rule changes can leave some admins feeling pressure to change policies in order to remain listed.

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[–] noodlejetski@lemm.ee 19 points 7 months ago (1 children)

gee, I guess this report should be scrapped then https://glaad.org/smsi/report-meta-fails-to-moderate-extreme-anti-trans-hate-across-facebook-instagram-and-threads/

[–] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Well then I guess the pro-trans thing to do is tell Katy she shouldn't be allowed to follow all those trans people.

[–] mraow_@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'm not sure that anyone said anything like that?

[–] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

What do you think the effect of "defederation" is?

[–] mraow_@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

If an instance defederates from another instance there's nothing stopping a user who liked that instance that was defederated with from moving to, making an account on or just using (in the broadest sense) another instance which hasn't defederated with the instance they like or that instance itself. I do this sometimes, I go on to another instance I don't have an account on to see the content a defederated instance treats as acceptable and thus the culture it has.

That's one reason I moved to the fediverse: so I could get rid of all of the content I didn't want to see before I saw it. More typical social media like Meta, Twitter and Reddit all have a long history of failing to moderate against anti-trans hate, as with other types of hate, so I moved to the fediverse. One thing that stuck out as a major selling point to me at the time was a lack of an algorithm, meaning that everything I saw I saw because I searched for it, I subscribed to it, because it's local or has been crossposted. Those latter two cases are the only real examples I can think of where a user is served content they didn't actively search for, and even then they're likely to be interested in it because an instance with a specific purpose, like lemmy.blahaj.zone or slrpnk.net, would only host communities that fit with the userbase's interests and communities only share things of interest to that community.

One of the reasons I use lemmy.blahaj.zone as my instance, which Katy also uses, is because the admins do their best to weed out transphobia and that includes Threads because Meta has poor moderation. It's already fairly well established practice to block or defederate from instances with poor moderation (sometimes including open registration) because they pose risks to an instance's userbase. If my instance federated with Threads I would feel at risk from Threads users attacking my posts or my private messaging inbox, so I would leave. We have already seen "aggressive" or "troll-ish" behaviour like this from instances which are far smaller than Threads is.

[–] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If an instance defederates from another instance there’s nothing stopping a user who liked that instance that was defederated with from moving to, making an account on or just using (in the broadest sense) another instance which hasn’t defederated with the instance they like or that instance itself.

This functional consequence of defederation is telling their users they shouldn't be allowed to interact with an instance. That they can just leave if they don't like it doesn't make the choice not coercive. Moving servers is certainly a viable option, but it's a pain and doesn't transfer content, so that's still locked under the former server's federation choice.

That’s one reason I moved to the fediverse: so I could get rid of all of the content I didn’t want to see before I saw it. More typical social media like Meta, Twitter and Reddit all have a long history of failing to moderate against anti-trans hate, as with other types of hate, so I moved to the fediverse.

On Mastodon, which is the place Threads is trying to federate with and which Katy was comparing it to, you can block instances. You no longer need your instance to make those decisions for you. Your desire to have Threads blocked at the instance level is at odds with Katy's desire to follow trans people on it. You can do a simple thing to implement your desires without forcing anything on the other person.

[–] mraow_@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

This functional consequence of defederation is telling their users they shouldn’t be allowed to interact with an instance.

Again, if lemmy.blahaj.zone's admin team have stated Threads has a transphobia problem (and they have) then I'm not going to tell them they're wrong (ignoring the fact that I agree with them) because, as admins, they've seen more than I have and if I'm on their instance I'm implicitly putting my trust in them. My trust has been well-placed, so far. If you do not trust your instance's admins to make decisions you find reasonable, find a new instance.

Moving servers is certainly a viable option, but it’s a pain and doesn’t transfer content

On one level I agree but that's the case with moving any social media without linking it and saying "This used to be mine, I don't maintain it anymore". I see no reason why federations (or "bubbles") in the fediverse should be held to a higher standard. I suppose I just can't relate because I don't particularly care much about the things I post and I'm only really in one place: here. In any case I can empathise with the fact moving instance is a pain but if your instance admins make decisions you don't like you should consider leaving it before you fall in to the Sunk Cost Fallacy and have even more posts you can't port over!

you can block instances.

A user blocking instances isn't the same as instances defederating. The difference between user-level blocking and instance-level defederation is that (1.) users need to see the offending content to be able to know to block it and (2.) I do not want bad-actors to see my content and want to put as many walls as possible up to stop them from seeing my content and interacting with me.

In either case this thread is about instances defederating from Threads. If moderators and admins notice their modlog or pending actions have a disproportionate amount of users misbehaving from a certain instance they might consider defederating until the instance can instill a more acceptable culture as it'll clear the queue up in future. Some communities and instances have already done this pre-emptively.

Your desire to have Threads blocked at the instance level is at odds with Katy’s desire to follow trans people on it.

Again, if an instance does not align with your values you can and probably should move instance. Maintaining an account on both two instances is as simple as having two different tabs. I would also advocate for improved tooling to transfer your content. The right to choose extends as far as your instance admins allow you the right to choose.