website, with a personal opinion on why the Fediverse seems a bit complicated. It basically goes like this: Mastodon (and pretty much every Fediverse project out there) is based on the idea of using multiple websites.

This is not really a problem on the desktop, as you're using the browser to log in to the Fediverse. You go to mastodon.social or lemmy.world, maybe bookmark these, and you log in as normal (if you do not check the remember me option at login). Same goes with Facebook, with Xitter, with the

spoiler

spez

website etc.

Alright, but the newer generations (not everyone, but many folks part of them) rather use apps instead. And what do these apps do? Present a login screen with fields only for the username and the password (at most).

What are the Fediverse apps doing? They are also asking for the website where they would log you in. So you go open e.g. the Mastodon app, then type the website that you need to access (which in many cases it might not contain the word Mastodon in it), and only then you can enter the credentials.

What am I asking now (especially app developers): Wouldn't it be better (if doable) to take some cues on how actually email (and XMPP for that matter) works, and ask the user for the username and the password instead in one go?

Like, everyone knows how to use email, everyone is familiar with that. And as I mentioned, XMPP is also doing it as well:

Gajim account login screen

Wouldn't it be doable?

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[–] covert_czar@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

My 2c: People find Mastodon/the Fediverse difficult because it was thought for desktop web browsing first. Question

I don't know if anyone realized this, but there is a significant difference between logging in to a Fediverse service vs. a centralized service on mobile, compared to logging to a Fediverse service vs. centralized service on the desktop. So let's round them up. Let's compare logging in to Facebook vs. logging in to a Mastodon instance (that is not .social, since we strive for decentralization, right?)

How to log in to Facebook on the desktop:

Open your browser
Go to facebook.com
Enter your login details
Press Log In

All you need is a username and a password.

How to log in to a Mastodon server on the desktop:

Open your browser
Go to the server website
Enter your login details
Press Log In

So far so good, right? Everything seems normal, all the steps are all it takes to log in on both sites. Now let's switch over to your mobile phone and log in to Facebook (presume you have all the apps needed installed beforehand):

Open the Facebook app
Enter your login details
Log in.

Now let's switch over to Mastodon:

Open the Mastodon app (of your choice)
Type in the server you have your account on
Enter your login details
Log in

See the difference? Your app is not an app, but rather a browser as well. Instead of the app directing you wherever you need, you have to tell the app where to go.

Now, for people like you and me, who might have had the internet experience before the smartphone was so popularized, this might not really be such an issue. We know how to open websites and browse the web. But for those who grew during the smartphone age, this is a significant burden they need to overcome. They need to remember, like, 3 things, instead of just two: the username, the password and the website. This is not necessary for the likes of Facebook (as in my example), where only 2 things need to be known: the username and the password. One less thing to remember is always better.

And I would also argue that among the former group, there might be also people who might not understand: hey, I downloaded an app, why do I have to type in the website as well in there? Don't I have a browser if I need to type out websites?

I intentionally omitted the fact that on the official Mastodon app, you need to select the option to join another server or whatever, so an extra button, in order to simplify things and keep it more in line to how other apps ask you to do.

So I only see two solutions to this problem, as more and more people access their services via an app, rather than a browser:

Make the app use the email address of the user and the password, as present on that specific server, and interrogate all servers (would also be a tremendous hassle and might even pose a security threat).
Make the Fediverse even more like email and ask people only for their Fediverse address and their password - this is also more in line to how email clients work. The user would not have to bother to remember the website name, so that would be an extra.

I also find more fitting to call servers/instances websites instead when talking to absolute beginners, because that's what any of these people see in front of them when they open a browser. Not a server, not an "instance", but a humble website where it says powered by Mastodon.

Here are my 2c about this. What do you think?