this post was submitted on 10 May 2024
281 points (89.4% liked)
Technology
59534 readers
3195 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
"We want expensive American EVs that most people can't afford, not cheap Chinese ones....."
China is subsidizing EV production and selling cars below cost. Allowing them to be sold in the US would kill the domestic EV market. How is that better for Americans?
Americans get cheaper EVs and the legacy auto industry gets taught a valuable lesson as companies who refused to modernize go bankrupt.
For a few years, until the American automakers go bankrupt, as you said, then the Chinese automakers increase prices 10x.
What a valuable lesson, get subsidized by an authoritarian government so that you can offer vehicles below cost. Also be sure to add spyware for the aforementioned authoritarian government.
Do you even understand what below cost means? No amount of modernization will counteract it.
Americans can also buy EVs from countries other than China. America can also subsidise internal EV production.
My point is that we shouldn't give a fuck about petrol loving manufacturers.
Respond to user demand and environmental pressure.
Don't arrogantly assume your polluting product will remain market leader.
Don't build ever bigger vehicles just to avoid particular regulations.
Yes. Would you like some oil industry case studies?
Have you heard of R&D investment, continual process improvement and economies of scale?
You're literally just talking to yourself, ignoring any mention of selling below cost, which is the biggest issue, with spyware being a close 2nd.
They responded
Adressed twice.
Suggesting subsidies should be given to American EV manufacturers
Investing to lower costs.
You think US products won't have spyware?
You're saying "they", but it's you. And no you didn't, repeating what you said before isn't addressing the issues.
Never addressed at all, you pivoted to the oil industry. You didn't address the subsidies from China or the unfair trade practices.
America will not subsidize to that level, if they could, and no amount of innovation is going to combat subsidization or the unfair trade practices.
According to a Bloomberg article, China will sell EVs at under $10,000, undercutting the price of the average American EV by $50,000. Are you seriously arguing that "investment to lower cost" will reduce the cost by 85-90%? That's simply a ludicrous assertion.
I don't think that collecting anonymized usage data, is the same as unlimited spying going back to an authoritarian government. So no, absolutely nothing comparable.
If you respond then I'm not talking to myself.
Directly answering a question is not pivoting. You asked if I knew about producing below cost. Yes, there are lots of examples of subsidies in the oil industry.
I did. Twice.
Course it could. Have you seen the defense budget? Take some of that.
I said the solution was subsidies and innovation.
Are you certain it is anonymous?
America is already an authoritarian government. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2017/03/08/what-we-know-about-car-hacking-the-cia-and-those-wikileaks-claims/
Honestly, everything you have said is dishonest and/or disingenuous. The idea that the price of the vehicle is going to be reduced by 90% as a result of subsidies and innovation is both stupid and dishonest. You should also look up the definition of authoritarian.
Nope. Dishonest would be failing to recognise the legacy auto industry's failure to invest sufficiently in EVs and related infrastructure. A disingenuous person would try to argue purely with xenophobia.
Isn't that exactly what you are claiming the Chinese are doing?
You should take a good look at American justice and law enforcement.
Tell me you know nothing about Chinese EVs without saying you know nothing about Chinese EVs.
Did we lose our industry when the Japanese auto manufacturers entered our market? When the Koreans did?
What's different this time?
Yeah cause car dependency is a completely unsustainable scam that's literally destroying the planet.
Is it really so much better to by subsidized by an colonial/imperial government (that's also authoritarian)?
Yes. It's an ideological term that promotes imaginary numbers over social reality.