What if we want democracy but nothing to do with Liberalism? Let's work towards a more progressive, humanity focused social agenda. Let's make people happy again.

[–] blue_berry@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You can have that. But I also want conservatives in the Fediverse to simulate societal debate better here. Defederation still exists, of course.

It's not about agreeing on everything but about finding common grounds again between opposing parties that at least share some common values.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Why would anyone want debate with a conservative?

They have no ideas to contribute to society.

[–] blue_berry@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

That's black and white thinking and undemocratic. Conservatives respect democracy and should therefore be a part of it.

Also they obviously something to contribute, next to Liberalism and Socialism, Conservatism is one of the biggest political traditions. Let's not be so stupid to assume that it's complete bullshit.

Conservatism protects traditional institutions, watches that change is not too fast and traditionally, also warns against too much destructering of traditional societal structures by the market. Maybe modern conservatives don't necessary do all of that, but it's a tradition that has earned itself.

[–] Deceptichum@kbin.social 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Conservatives are the only people out here actively trying to erode democracy. They do not respect it, quite the opposite in fact.

As for actually conserving, they do very little of that as well. It's mainly bitching about change and holding back the world until their generation dies off, it's a net negative on the betterment of everyone on earth.

Just look at the harm it's done to causes such as climate change. We're running out of time as a society, there's no time to argue with them about if women should have basic human rights or if we should move towards a non-polluting lifestyle.

Maybe 3,000 years ago when the biggest change a generation had to worry about was your son a slightly different style of toga instead of what the last 10 generation of your family wore it had some value, but I haven't seen case for it since.

[–] Ashyr@sh.itjust.works 1 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Can you define how Liberalism is different from Progressivism? I've always self-identified as progressive because I don't feel liberal democrats go far enough, but I don't actually know what makes Liberalism distinct from something more progressive.

[–] sir_reginald@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

liberalism aligns with capitalism. most progressives are anticapitalist.

sure, liberals are normally progressives too, the counterpart of the moderates and the conservatives which are all capitalists, but they are usually perceived as not real progressives by the socialists, etc.

[–] fenndev@leminal.space 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It's my (fairly uneducated) observation and understanding that liberalism is often significantly more aligned with conservatism than socialism, for example. It's ultimately under the umbrella of ideologies that support and prop up capitalism.

[–] kersploosh@sh.itjust.works 4 points 10 months ago

It’s ultimately under the umbrella of ideologies that support and prop up capitalism.

I think that's a good summary.

"Classical liberalism" is basically what modern libertarians want: a laissez-faire capitalist economy, a secular representative government with very limited powers, prioritizing individual freedom over collective well-being, etc.

In my part of the world "liberalism" is now commonly used to refer to a different set of priorities: creating economic safety nets, regulating business, promoting universal healthcare, unions, gender equality, racial equality, etc. Though capitalism and a secular representative government are still part of the mix.