There are two arguments being combined here. The first half is regarding the free rider problem within a theoretical communist society. The second is regarding care of the less fortunate within a voluntaryist society. They are both valid arguments without proven answers outside of theory.

[–] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Free market and capitalism is much much less proven than living in communes (communism).

Even feudalism is a more proven system by that logic.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

They're both invalid arguments with proven answers throughout history. The free rider problem hasn't existed in Communists states any more than in capitalist ones, meanwhile we know for a fact that trickle down economics does not work.

[–] minnix@lemux.minnix.dev 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

They’re both invalid arguments with proven answers throughout history. The free rider problem hasn’t existed in Communists states any more than in capitalist ones, meanwhile we know for a fact that trickle down economics does not work.

Your post isn't an answer to either argument nor has anything been "proven". Communism is a stateless society, and I can't think of a time that has existed before the birth of nations. The free rider problem is what happens in a communist society when those who decide not to contribute become a burden upon those who do. Trickle down economics has nothing to do with charitable giving within a voluntary market-driven society, but is a term used to describe stronger economic growth based on reduced tax burdens for the upper economic class.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Free rider problem is made up. Stateless classless societies have obviously existed throughout history. Every small tribal society is basically that. Meanwhile, the "voluntary" market-driven society is what liberal capitalism is. It doesn't work.

[–] minnix@lemux.minnix.dev -1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The free rider problem is most definitely not made up.

Stateless classless societies have obviously existed throughout history. Every small tribal society is basically that.

Every tribal society on earth exists within a State. As I wrote before, there have always been States after the birth of nations.

Meanwhile, the “voluntary” market-driven society is what liberal capitalism is. It doesn’t work.

There isn't currently a voluntary market society, since all societies also exist within States, States that are run by governments.

The two original arguments exist within a theoretical vacuum which is my point. Unless you have some kind of a priori argument that solves either one, you haven't provided actual "proof" of anything.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The free rider problem is most definitely not made up.

It is because real world societies have simple and well known mechanisms to deal with it.

Every tribal society on earth exists within a State. As I wrote before, there have always been States after the birth of nations.

It very much does not.

There isn’t currently a voluntary market society, since all societies also exist within States, States that are run by governments.

Wait till you find out how and why states form.

The two original arguments exist within a theoretical vacuum which is my point. Unless you have some kind of a priori argument that solves either one, you haven’t provided actual “proof” of anything.

Actually, it's your arguments that exist in a theoretical vacuum utterly divorced from the real world.

[–] minnix@lemux.minnix.dev 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Ok, you're now writing things that have no connection whatsoever to the points presented. There is a good discussion to be had around the two original arguments as they've been covered by philosophers and economists for years, but it appears you are not the one to have that discussion with.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

What I wrote directly relates to the points presented, but if you don't understand how that's fine. It appears you are not the one to have that discussion with.

[–] minnix@lemux.minnix.dev -1 points 3 months ago

Sure. Also as an aside, votes are transparent on Lemmy