Hey 👋 if you don't know us already, we're building Frontpage; an AT Procol based federated link aggregator. We shipped an initial MVP in closed beta recently and have since been thinking about the road to general availability.

This post is an RFC (Request for Comments) targeted at technically minded folks who are interested in seeing the progression of atproto for non-Bluesky/microblogging use cases. All that's to say the language that follows assumes some knowledge about how Bluesky and atproto work! I've tried to include links to explain what all of the jargon means though, so hopefully it's not entirely nonsense for folks a little less familiar!

When you post on Frontpage, we propose that a mirror post will also be created in your Bluesky account. When you comment on Frontpage, we propose that a mirror reply will be created in your Bluesky account.

Conversely, when you reply to one of these mirrored posts in Bluesky - we will show it as a reply in Frontpage.

Additionally, Bluesky likes will be translated to Frontpage votes and vice versa.

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[–] schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business 6 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I have a question, and I'm legitimately asking in good faith, because I am confused by this obsession about Mastodon compatibility.

Basically, why?

Mastodon doesn't give a shit about being a good citizen and very much has issues they've said they won't fix. And frankly, if Mastodon devs don't appear to care, why is everyone else so concerned about it?

Let them silo into their own little safe space, and maybe push people to use other platforms that ARE willing to be good Fedi-citizens.

(Also I hate how Masto-user posts show up with the @s and endless hashtags: they don't conform to how Lemmy posts look and work, and I'd legitimately consider just blocking all the Mastodon posters until they don't look and feel weird and out of place.)

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

And frankly, if Mastodon devs don’t appear to care, why is everyone else so concerned about it?

Some people think that because Mastodon and Lemmy are both using ActivityPub, Lemmy could gain some users if Mastodon users could interact with Lemmy.

But this seems to overlook that microblogging and link aggregation are two very different ways to interact with content.

Reddit probably has the highest reserve for potential Lemmy users, just because they are more used to link aggregators.

[–] schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I mean, I'm not opposed to more users from larger platforms, but right now it's a shitty experience for Mastodon users trying to follow a Lemmy community, and it's a shitty experience for Lemmy users when a Mastodon user posts into a community too.

You need BOTH sides to make concessions and fixes and changes to make the experience not shit, and like, that will is just plain not there.

I also agree that the use cases of the platforms are wildly different and that leads to some added friction, but if the software actually interoperated well you could probably fix that with just polite social pressure.

But, well, neither side of this "interoperability" is... useful, and Mastodon doesn't seem interested to fix it.

I also think recruiting new users might be a more useful use of time than trying to just rely on poaching them from somewhere else, but uh, I couldn't tell you really how that should or could be done.

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Agreed with most of your points

I also think recruiting new users might be a more useful use of time than trying to just rely on poaching them from somewhere else, but uh, I couldn’t tell you really how that should or could be done.

/r/RedditAlternatives is basically the one place we have now. We mention Lemmy there regularly, so hopefully over time it will work.

[–] schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That's kind of my comment: pulling from Reddit is probably pointless. If you're still on reddit at this point, there's nothing short of Spez showing up and killing your cat that's going to make you leave.

The Fediverse in general needs to think about being more than just a 'we copied twitter', and a 'we copied youtube', and a 'we copied instagram' and of course a 'we copied reddit' collection of things, because you can't pull people from the thing you're copying unless you're better in some way that a normal person will care about.

And I use all these fedi-things to the (mostly) exclusion of the commercial versions, but if we're being very honest, they're all carrying a lot of rough edges still.

The Fediverse needs to be able to define and sell itself to people without having to say 'we're like x'. If you can't explain what you're doing and why someone should care in a way that makes them care, nobody will.

(This is what I get for spending time with people who do marketing stuff, I guess, lol.)

[–] Blaze@feddit.org 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If you’re still on reddit at this point, there’s nothing short of Spez showing up and killing your cat that’s going to make you leave.

There are a few reasons why people on Reddit prefer to stay there rather than move elsewhere

the other place lacks content
the other place does not have their specific niche communities
Reddit is still okay to use

We are kind of working on the first one (and anyway, the only way to get content is to get more and more users)

For the second one, that's something even harder to tackle. !newcommunities@lemmy.world tries to fill that gap, but same as above, it needs more users.

The third one is the most interesting. At some point in the future, Reddit is going to kill old.reddit. By that time, people will look for an alternative, and if they know about Lemmy, they'll give it a try.

unless you’re better in some way that a normal person will care about.

Lemmy is better than Reddit on the following points:

Third party apps actively developed
No ads hiding as posts
Cleaner web interfaces

It's just not enough at the moment, as stated above.

[–] schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business 1 points 2 months ago

If I were a dev, I'd probably prioritize that awful 'THIS HAS FAILED!' error when you search for a new community that your server doesn't know about because well, new users who don't know that doesn't mean what it says are going to walk away thinking something either doesn't exist or is broken.

I also kinda think that community lists and activity stats should somehow be federated between all the servers that know each other.

Like, lemmy.world knows uncomfortable.business exists, so both servers should know the full list of non-private communities that COULD in theory be federated and be pre-populated in the search results.

And then feddit.org is federated with lemmy.world, so all 3 of the servers should be fully aware of each other's communities so that a user that lands on ANY instance immediately has a working searchable list of all communities that exist.

Some overhead, sure, but the amount of data here is probably just a one-time big sync and then a small number of updates which is certainly not going to break anything given how chatty lemmy already is.

[–] DerisionConsulting@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 months ago

Yeah, I think Lemmy and Mastodon should be made even more separate than they are currently, they are different platforms with different styles, goals, and uses.

[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It should be a toggle able setting but whata the issue with @ and # ?

[–] schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I mean, by themselves, nothing.

The issue is the posting and visibility requirements for a Mastodon post lead to some ugly garbage when translated here. You get shit like

@community @user1 @user2 @otheruser Yep, I agree, this could be better #hashtag #hashtag2 #hashtag3 #hashtag4

Which uh, is not really parsed in any meaningful way, and is 75% noise when put into the format Lemmy uses for a post and/or reply.

[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I think tags need to be interoperable so tags become sudo communities

[–] mke@programming.dev 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Pseudo?

[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago

Yeah thats the one