Of course it was because of the material conditions at the time and because the capitalist class felt threatened by the rise of communism and felt a need to combat it. It was still propaganda though and it has irreparably damaged the American psyche. Btw, the material conditions at the time were not all hunk-dory either. There was massive wealth disparity between “white” Americans and African -Americans. Minorities were still fighting widespread discrimination which prevented them the enjoy the same freedoms and prosperity as the rest of America.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Of course it was because of the material conditions at the time and because the capitalist class felt threatened by the rise of communism and felt a need to combat it. It was still propaganda though and it has irreparably damaged the American psyche.

Again, I encourage you to reject the "brainwashing" narrative. The conditions came before the ideas.

Btw, the material conditions at the time were not all hunk-dory either. There was massive wealth disparity between “white” Americans and African -Americans. Minorities were still fighting widespread discrimination which prevented them the enjoy the same freedoms and prosperity as the rest of America.

Absolutely correct, material conditions don't mean equal prosperity. How familiar are you with Historical Materialism?

[–] serendepity@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It absolutely was propaganda because the capitalist class perpetuated the lie that progressive policies would hurt the country. Neoliberals, through the use of rhetoric in the media, helped popularize the idea of the infallible free market – that was propaganda. Nation states don’t have to staunchly be strictly capitalist or communist; social democracies do work, with the caveat that citizens have to be well-informed and act as stewards to protect and exercise their electoral rights in shaping a nation.

I’m well aware of Historical Materialism. My contention to your larger point, in short, was that the way forward has to be meticulous and measured. Accelerating the downfall of the system in place will have a real, disastrous impact on the lives of the existing working class. We cannot destroy lives on the promise that it will get better. Class consciousness is step 1, but we’re not even there yet.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It absolutely was propaganda because the capitalist class perpetuated the lie that progressive policies would hurt the country. Neoliberals, through the use of rhetoric in the media, helped popularize the idea of the infallible free market – that was propaganda.

It was propaganda, yes. It did not "brainwash" the masses, if the material conditions weren't fit it wouldn't have done anything.

Nation states don’t have to staunchly be strictly capitalist or communist; social democracies do work, with the caveat that citizens have to be well-informed and act as stewards to protect and exercise their electoral rights in shaping a nation.

Social Democracy doesn't work, the Nordics are seeing erosion of worker power and safety nets, and they depend on Imperialism to fund their safety nets.

I’m well aware of Historical Materialism. My contention to your larger point, in short, was that the way forward has to be meticulous and measured. Accelerating the downfall of the system in place will have a real, disastrous impact on the lives of the existing working class. We cannot destroy lives on the promise that it will get better. Class consciousness is step 1, but we’re not even there yet.

It will not get better without Revolution.

[–] serendepity@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

No comment on the real cost of a revolution? I guess we disagree on a fundamental level. Good day.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The question of Reform vs Revolution is already answered, Marxists believe Revolution is the only way to bring about Socialism, which is correct.

[–] serendepity@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You still haven’t answered my question and are instead falling back on dogma. Revolutions work when the oppressed are acutely aware of their oppression and unite against the oppressors. You cannot realistically do that when half the working class thinks that that are the beneficiaries of capitalism.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago

You cannot realistically do that when half the working class thinks that that are the beneficiaries of capitalism.

I mean, they are. The US Proletariat is among the Labor Aristocracy, they benefit from Imperialism dramatically. The fall of Imperialism will drive the US Proletariat to revolution.