this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2024
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[–] davel@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 month ago (3 children)

[–] drwankingstein@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

The War in Ukraine Was Provoked—and Why That Matters to Achieve Peace

The shooting war in Ukraine began with Yanukovych’s overthrow nine years ago, not in February 2022 as the U.S. government, NATO, and the G7 leaders would have us believe.

So many people forget that the Ukrainian Russian conflict never really ended, the idea that it was an unprovoked invasion is absurd, (and no, before someone decides to make a braindead comment, provoked does not mean justified.) There have been many leaked videos pre-invasion of violence towards both sides, and neither side made a proper effort to actually quell it, only surface level bullshit inorder to take the "moral ground:

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Westerners usually don’t know any of that, because Western governments, NGOs, and corporate media erase all inconvenient context and history. I try to point folks toward developing real media literacy

[–] nanook@friendica.eskimo.com 4 points 4 weeks ago

@davel @drwankingstein All of which have their biases and really a very limited subsample of viewpoints and history.

[–] Samueru@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 weeks ago (5 children)

Holy shit I didn't know admins in this place were full blown Russian lickers. I don't know about you but I would gladly have my country join nato if that means not ending up like Georgia or now Ukraine twice.

Also congrats on getting Finland to finally join nato btw.

[–] theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world 5 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Right??? They act like they are concerned about what events could have taken place to ensure that the invasion never happened. Guess what could have occurred that would have been the biggest guarantee that the invasion could never happen? Ukraine joining NATO prior to the invasion....

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 12 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

All NATO wanted to do was to use Ukraine as a tool to weaken Russia, and now NATO will discard Ukraine like a used condom. That's the fate of all the vassals of the empire.

[–] nanook@friendica.eskimo.com 3 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

@yogthos @theunknownmuncher The controllers of said empire isn't the elected government. How we can reign that back in, I don't know.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 weeks ago

That's the big question of our times.

[–] 0x0@programming.dev 1 points 4 weeks ago

How we can reign that back in, I don’t know.

They're above the law, so... guillotines.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 weeks ago

always hilarious to see nafoids show up here

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 0 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

Cool, maybe the US will blow up its new ally’s pipelines too someday. We are not a trustworthy ally.

[–] nanook@friendica.eskimo.com -2 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

@Samueru @davel Is there something about people from lemmy.ml that makes them only capable of insults as opposed to rational discussions?

[–] Samueru@lemmy.ml 6 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

What rational discussion is to be had when one country is clearly annexing another since 2014 lmao?

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 7 points 4 weeks ago

The US currently occupies a larger percentage of Syria than Russia is of Ukraine, but do go on.

[–] nanook@friendica.eskimo.com -1 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

@Samueru The history goes back way before 2014 and your summation of the situation is inaccurate.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee 1 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

There is also a recent academic book (by an Ukrainian academic) about the maidan massacre: The Maidan Massacre in Ukraine: The Mass Killing that Changed the World | SpringerLink

Evidence shows beyond a reasonable doubt the far right / oligarchs were behind the mass killing of over 100 people and blame it on the government in a false flag operation. But people in the west will never hear of this. And if they hear they will dismiss it as conspiracy theory or propaganda. So it's really no wonder people like linus react like this.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 weeks ago

One has to really go out of one’s way to hear it, because corporate media aren’t going to tell it to us, until perhaps twenty or more years from now, when it no longer matters.

[–] nanook@friendica.eskimo.com 0 points 4 weeks ago

@Samueru I find it humorous that someone would downvote me for suggesting that history goes back more than a decade. Guess they are less than ten years old and think their parents appeared out of nowhere when they were born.

[–] Samueru@lemmy.ml -1 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Yes it goes back to Holodomor and how russia has always treated ukranians as second class citizens.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 7 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

During the 1932 Holodomor Famine, the USSR sent aid to affected regions in an attempt to alleviate the famine. According to Mark Tauger in his article, The 1932 Harvest and the Famine of 1933:

While the leadership did not stop exports, they did try to alleviate the famine. A 25 February 1933 Central Committee decree allotted seed loans of 320,000 tons to Ukraine and 240,000 tons to the northern Caucasus. Seed loans were also made to the Lower Volga and may have been made to other regions as well. Kul'chyts'kyy cites Ukrainian party archives showing that total aid to Ukraine by April 1933 actually exceeded 560,000 tons, including more than 80,000 tons of food

Some bring up massive grain exports during the famine to show that the Soviet Union exported food while Ukraine starved. This is fallacious for a number of reasons, but most importantly of all the amount of aid that was sent to Ukraine alone actually exceeded the amount that was exported at the time.

Aid to Ukraine alone was 60 percent greater than the amount exported during the same period. Total aid to famine regions was more than double exports for the first half of 1933.

According to Tauger, the reason why more aid was not provided was because of the low harvest

It appears to have been another consequence of the low 1932 harvest that more aid was not provided: After the low 1931, 1934, and 1936 harvests procured grain was transferred back to peasants at the expense of exports.

Tauger is not a communist, and ultimately this specific article takes the view that the low harvest was caused by collectivization (he factors in the natural causes of the famine in later articles, based on how he completely neglects to mention weather in this article at all its clear that his position shifted over the years). However, the Soviets really did try to alleviate the famine as best as they could. Maybe spend some time learning a bit of history instead of flaunting your ignorance in public.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/2500600

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip -3 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

removed

Or that's what this would be on Lemmy.ml. They are all tankies and they get mad when you point out terrible things like facts.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 7 points 4 weeks ago

I love how you dronies always project. The only ones who are mad are you lot. We just think you provide free entertainment like court jesters.

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip -5 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

You are on the Russian instance my friend. I would strongly recommend finding a new home.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 weeks ago

By Russian instance you mean one where people engage with reality that's uncomfortable for the utterly brainwashed people like yourself?

[–] Samueru@lemmy.ml 0 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

What instance do you suggest?

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 7 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

reddit.com is the one for you

[–] Samueru@lemmy.ml -3 points 4 weeks ago

Btw just before I leave, I'll drop this here since it seems to trigger people like you for some reason:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide

[–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 4 points 4 weeks ago

Pretty much any that isn't Lemmy.ml, hexbear or lemmygrad. (And maybe beehaw.social as they have defederated from Lemmy.world)

Just look around and pick one.

[–] CaptDust@sh.itjust.works -1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

NATO will continue expanding as more and more border countries don't want to deal with limp dick Putin. Russia will be broken up to small territories and anything that remains of the federation will be scrapped and sold for salvage to finance rebuilding what has been lost.

Ta-ta!

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 weeks ago

That is what the US has wanted for the last 25 years, but it’s unlikely to happen. The Global North has very significantly de-industrialized itself, and its attempts at sanctions not only haven’t worked, but are having the effect of it isolating itself from the global majority. Russia has aligned with the Global South. Hence BRICS+ and the larger developing multipolar bloc that’s going its own way, ignoring the US’ “rules-based international order” sanctions, developing its own international balance of payments outside of US dollar hegemony, and working to get out from under the boot of the IMF’s & World Bank’s debt traps.

the federation will be scrapped and sold for salvage

The neocolonial plunderers already tried that, and they even got away with under Yeltsin, but then Putin kicked them out, which is why they’re especially butthurt about him.

[–] nanook@friendica.eskimo.com -3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

@CaptDust @davel When you need to resort to insults like this it's a clear sign you've lost the argument.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 3 points 4 weeks ago

Not always, but often 😂