this post was submitted on 28 Jun 2024
709 points (99.9% liked)

Technology

59534 readers
3135 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Long-term carrier lock-in could soon be a thing of the past in America after the FCC proposed requiring telcos to unlock cellphones from their networks 60 days after activation.

FCC boss Jessica Rosenworcel put out that proposal on Thursday, saying it would encourage competition between carriers. If subscribers could simply walk off to another telco with their handsets after two months of use, networks would have to do a lot more competing, the FCC reasons.

"When you buy a phone, you should have the freedom to decide when to change service to the carrier you want and not have the device you own stuck by practices that prevent you from making that choice," Rosenworcel said.

Carrier-locked devices contain software mechanisms that prevent them from being used on other providers' networks. The practice has long been criticized for being anti-consumer.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de 176 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (11 children)

is that some american problem i'm too euro to understand? we got rid of this anticompetitive shit in early 10s

[–] Toes@ani.social 76 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Yeah, the less civilized parts of world still do carrier locking to act as an impediment to switching carriers without also giving up your phone or paying a ransom fee.

[–] shortwavesurfer@monero.town 40 points 4 months ago (6 children)

Which is why I've been buying nothing except OEM unlocked devices since 2016 I Payful price for them, but I don't have to worry about leaving my carrier Whenever I want and I don't have to be on extremely expensive cell phone plans either. There is nobody else in my entire life that pays less for cell phone service than I do and I only know one person who pays the exact same and that's because we are on the same plan on our own accounts. Literally, everybody I know in my life pays about four times what I do for cell phone service.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] NegativeInf@lemmy.world 17 points 4 months ago (2 children)

As an American, can I have some of that freedom?

[–] RaoulDook@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I've had that freedom for the entire duration of the existence of smartphones, in the USA. I buy my phones with no contract, at discounted prices, then I flash them with custom ROMs to improve everything, and I use no contract cell phone service. Since about 2007, that is.

[–] NegativeInf@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago
[–] JJROKCZ@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago

You can, just buy the phone unlocked online and then get download an eSIM from a carrier. Bear in mind when buying the phone unlocked you’ll need to pay the full phone price up front and won’t be able to finance it through your phone plan like most Americans

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 58 points 4 months ago (7 children)

In the US, almost no one buys their phones outright. They "lease to own". Anyone whe does buy their phone outright can just buy the unlocked ones.

So I'm not sure what this rule would actually change. You're already not Carrier locked if you bought your phone. You're only Carrier locked if you lease it.

The big fuck up was eliminating competition by allowing t mobile to buy sprint. Too many pieces of shit were in charge 2016 to 2020.

[–] RaoulDook@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago (8 children)

I know lots of Americans who buy their phones without those stupid contracts. It's not uncommon at all. I have never have a phone on a contract.

[–] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 10 points 4 months ago (2 children)

In your circle maybe, I'd love the statistics on this though because I'm pretty sure the overwhelming majority are paying for their phones on installment through their carriers.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 4 months ago (3 children)

I've had a couple. The issue is that you don't save any money on their service if you have your own. So it's basically "you can pay us $70 a month and buy your phone yourself, or you can pay us $70 a month and have this phone under contract for two years that we'll give you."

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (6 replies)
[–] shortwavesurfer@monero.town 14 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Sprint would have failed without the merger and we would have had three carriers anyway so it doesn't matter whether they merged or not and in fact it's probably better that they did because it caused T-Mobile's service to improve dramatically since then. I knew friends who had T-Mobile back in 2012 and it was a joke. I had T-Mobile in 2016 and it was only okay.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] RedEyeFlightControl@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Not always true, I bought a smart talk phone for my kid and the phone was paid in full at the time of purchase. It's still carrier locked 5 years later because they say "it wasn't in service for x amount of time and therefore isn't eligible". I even reported this to the FCC, opened a case, and they did fuckall and closed the report.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] TheGalacticVoid@lemm.ee 9 points 4 months ago (2 children)

The merger is still something that I'm 50/50 on because it made T-Mobile's service so much more reliable, and iirc Sprint was genuinely struggling.

It still sucks that Boost isn't going anywhere

[–] cm0002@lemmy.world 22 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Sprint was genuinely struggling.

They were on the verge of bankruptcy, really the 2 options were

  1. Let T-Mobile (a distant third competitor to the big 2) buy them

  2. Let sprint die, the big 2 buy large chucks of sprint anyways for pennies on the dollar post-bankruptcy and make their distance from T-Mobile even bigger.

If you need another reason, AT&T was very against the deal, so you KNOW what they think is bad is probably actually good for consumers

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] ripcord@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I wonder what the percentage is these days. Almost everyone I know bought their phone outright.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] towerful@programming.dev 5 points 4 months ago

I remember during COVID, trying to reduce my bills. Called my mobile operator. For £200 fee I could buy out early, and pay £15 per month. Or I could continue paying something ridiculous like £60 per month.
Absolute no-brainer, and I would never get a contract phone again.

[–] Strykker@programming.dev 5 points 4 months ago

In Canada even if you lease to own a phone it's not carrier locked anymore, you have to pay the remaining balance if you leave, or possibly can return the phone (but that's just throwing your money away)

[–] NewWorldOverHere@lemmy.world 12 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Europe (Germany specifically) has their own problems with carriers though.

When you notify them that you’re cancelling your service, you still have to pay for 3 MORE full months of service after that. Even if you’re in the military and ordered to move. That’s a long time.

This 3 month period mandatory cancellation notice doesn’t change even if you’ve been with them for 2+ years.

For US carriers, once you’ve been with them more than the initial 2 years, you are pretty much able to cancel whenever.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[–] cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de 92 points 4 months ago (6 children)

OK, now ban bootloader locking next.

[–] sunzu@kbin.run 6 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Don't Sammy do and apple do it... Not even carriers?

[–] Lojcs@lemm.ee 21 points 4 months ago

Pretty sure Samsung does it to appease carriers since they sell unlocked snapdragon variants elsewhere

[–] LodeMike@lemmy.today 12 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If you buy a phone from Verizon its perma locked for no reason

[–] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

Oh there's a reason. Hotspot bypass being a big one I'd wager, the other being making it significantly harder to avoid ads

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] dinckelman@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

For quite a long time now, it's been the case that if your vendor makes this hard as is, a carrier on top of that will make it considerably worse. As an example, take a look at older Samsung devices, that all needed special-tailored roms for each carrier variant

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] Hellmo_Luciferrari@lemm.ee 37 points 4 months ago (2 children)

"Verizon agrees that the FCC should consider the merits and trade-offs of handset unlocking requirements," Verizon spokesperson Rich Young told The Register, though that support is conditional.

Screw verizon with an acid covered cactus. What possible "merits" are there to locking a device down for anyone but the companies selling the phones? Rich Young can go kick rocks.

I will not buy a phone through a carrier, I will not buy a phone with a locked bootloader. Period.

I am done with anticonsumer bullshit.

[–] ripcord@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

With Chevron overturned, you are absolutely not done with it. It will get much worse.

[–] Toes@ani.social 5 points 4 months ago (2 children)

How do you feel about removable batteries?

[–] Godort@lemm.ee 13 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

With removable batteries is that there is actually a legitimate reason for getting rid of them, in that it's much harder to waterproof a device with a removable battery.

I'd still like to see the option available, but I can at least understand why it's not from a practical standpoint. The only reason carrier locks exist is to increase the cost of change for the end user, making them less likely to switch providers.

[–] Hellmo_Luciferrari@lemm.ee 4 points 4 months ago

I can see two sides to this:

Removable batteries are great, if you want longevity for a phone, and don't mind sacrificing water resistance.

On the other side of the coin:

Removable batteries have more potential to lower water resistance ratings.

I think more manufacturers should give the choice of a model with a removable battery.

[–] harsh3466@lemmy.ml 25 points 4 months ago

Don’t worry. With SCOTUS overturning Chevron this won’t stick. /s (in case it’s not obvious)

[–] secret300@lemmy.sdf.org 24 points 4 months ago

Thank fucking God. It never should have been a thing ever.

[–] nutsack@lemmy.world 20 points 4 months ago (5 children)

I had no idea this was even still a thing I don't understand how it's legal

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 19 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

We'll see how this fares in the face of Chevron being rescinded. Will they even recognize FCC authority to do this?

Pretty sure all new rules like this must be made my congress now...

Hoo boy we are fucked.

[–] LodeMike@lemmy.today 4 points 4 months ago (3 children)

The FCC can do anything within the law as a condition of using radio wavelengths.

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Not any more, since the Supreme Court just overturned Chevron. Now the FCC (and every other federal organization) can only do what's explicitly described in law.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)

Too bad SCOTUS just ruled that US government regulatory agencies are essentially meaningless a day or two ago

[–] danafest@lemm.ee 16 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Just stop buying phones from carriers and you never have to worry about this. If you like a phone, buy it unlocked straight from the manufacturer and do whatever you want with it. Most offer payment plans, and if not you can always use klarna or a credit card with no interest to make payments on it.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If there is money to be lost in it, dont bet on it getting lit

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world 12 points 4 months ago (1 children)

As soon as T-Mobile's check clears, the conservative SCOTUS will make sure all phones remain locked for eternity. Praise Jesus!

[–] Sabata11792@ani.social 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

With recent changes to bribery laws by the supreme court, they must change the law before getting paid.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Simlocks have completely vanished from the market at least here in Germany, mostly because carriers don't care if you use your subsidised bonus phone with a different card -- you're still locked into a contract with two years or such minimum duration. Even those contracts have gotten rare though I think most people right-out own their phones and then make a separate contract.

[–] vxx@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

It only went away because they were forced to. We would still live with that carrier mess if it wasn't for regulation.

[–] SpiceDealer@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago

As much as I to be optimistic, I doubt this will pass. So long as Wall Street is still a thing don't expect any sort of regulations. Continue to buy second-hand, OEM unlocked phones on eBay.

[–] FeelThePower@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 4 months ago

This explains why I got a text from my carrier saying all phones now come unlocked. Guess they're preparing ahead of time. Mine was already unlocked, but still.

[–] conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works 6 points 4 months ago

If we're talking "free" devices with some commitment, I'm OK with some limitation until the terms are met.

The second you charge a dollar for it, it should be unconditionally illegal to have it carrier locked the day they walk out of the store. 60 days isn't good enough.

[–] HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)
[–] HogsTooth@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago

That's the spirit

load more comments
view more: next ›