this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2023
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[–] AlDente@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For the anti-capitalists, I have a genuine question (sorry, I couldn't find an "ask a commie" community):

In the capitalist system there is a movement called Financial Independence Retire Early (FIRE) where people commit to living frugally in an effort to maximize savings and investments. The goal is to achieve a balance that allows you live off a safe withdrawal rate (around 3.5-4%) and then leave the workforce at an earlier than normal age. Some people commit to a life of minimalism and lean-FIRE with under $20k in investment income per year. I believe there is significant overlap with the van-life crowd and other nomadic lifestyles.

Is this lifestyle compatible with, or is there a similar lifestyle within a communist system? To expand, can those with a different set of priorities trade away their later working days in exchange for less material things?

[–] taanegl@lemmy.world 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

What? There are plenty of communist Lemmy subs you can ask in. I just think you haven't tried hard enough.

To answer your question tho, no - because there would be no need. Communism does want mandatory participation, but if checked and balanced correctly everyone would work within their limits and not be relegated to a lower class of living - because that's sort of the point of communism. You'd work within your means until there was time to retire without being limited in access to services and goods. Theoretically, under a functioning communist system, there would be no manufactured scarcity.

Tbh I believe both communism and our current form of capitalism centralises power and ownership way too much. Social-capitalism, or even libertarian socialism, might be the ticket. It would undo at least 200 years of psy-ops and gamed laws designed to favour the rich and vesting power in them, which is the issue of centralised power that we're facing today - in what some call "late-stage capitalism" - or what I call the breaking point of society under a predatory, exploitative and imperialistic form of capitalism that seems more like the privatisation of the aristocracy than the supposed liberalisation of economy. Transparency, accountability and consequences for people in power and wealth is what's sorely needed.

PS: New public management is a con-job disguised as decentralisation meant to encumber governments under the guise of checking and balancing them, being effectively a psy-op in of itself to make people hate public services and taxes. As per usual, goddamn liberals - and I include socially conservative liberals in that polifical grouping. Dems and pubs are the same, want the same institutions and promote US imperialism - not fiscal independence, no matter what justification and mental gymnastics they put in the form of spreadsheets.

PPS: Also, additionally, commodification of the housing market was a mistake. It will always be stupid and harmful towards society.

[–] MenKlash@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Tell me how you don't know the difference between corporatocracy and capitalism without telling me how you don't know the difference between corporatocracy and capitalism.

[–] ArcticLynx@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
[–] Neato@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] ArcticLynx@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago

Yeah no shit it reads 'lemmy', everyone here is in this meme

[–] Hadriscus@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

Mince you into fertilizer 😂 Reminds me of Soylent Green and Oddworld

Fake. There are no women here.

[–] pizzahoe@lemm.ee 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

These capitalist and billionaire cocksuckers sure love socialism when they socialise their losses and fucking take our tax payer money to bail themselves out. if you're working class and don't support socialism, you should look into it more. Propaganda from these blood sucking billionaire ghouls have made most of us blind to the better life socialism can offer us.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That isnt socialism, thats the capitalist state doing its job of protecting capital. Socialism is when the proletariat own the means of production.

[–] pizzahoe@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yes i agree. Just pointing out the fact there's no free market. When they lose, they still win by taking our hard earned money and using it to further their interests. I'd be happier if it were used for our welfare instead.

[–] Flumsy@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

So everybody on Lemmy is non-capitalist is what you're saying?

[–] Custoslibera@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

A large proportion of Lemmy are not pro-capitalist, yes.

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[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Does anyone here own capital? As in being haut bourgeoisie? Probably not.

If you support capitalism and you're not a capitalist you're just a bootlicker.

[–] huge_clock@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You wouldn’t be any better off on a socialist system. The people at the top of the party would control everything and the working class would be even poorer than they are now. You’re just licking the left boot instead of the right one.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This is empirically untrue, but also just nonsense. Politicians do not have the same class relationship as capitalists with the proletariat.

[–] huge_clock@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Oh I’m sorry i didn’t realize there was empirical evidence for socialism. Please send me a link to some of these successful socialist societies.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Cuba, Vietnam, and Laos for starters China went from a century of humiliation to a superpower in less then a century thanks to socialism. The USSR was better than the feudalism before it or the dictatorships of the bourgeoisie that came after it by a wide margin. For a place much poorer than the US, they had similar nutrition, better education, more rights for women both legalistically and practically.

Oh, throw in east Germany too. Do you know what the Stasi did to the lgbt movement that they saw as subversive? Destroy it by ending discrimination against gay and trans people, including a massive education campaign to eradicate homophobia and transphobia and state funded gay bars. Compare that to how the US was treating gay people at the time.

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[–] LemmyIsFantastic@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Yes, I probably have assets valued at .5-1M that I've accumulated with my family.

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[–] snekerpimp@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wow, this one touched some nerves.

[–] Custoslibera@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’d recommend posting a tangentially political meme at some point on Lemmy.

The amount of people who will come out of the woodwork to tell you ‘don’t post this’ and ‘don’t make things political’ will really be eye opening.

People don’t want to address systemic issues and think not talking about them is a viable solution.

[–] snekerpimp@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just making comments about rich people and their taxes seems to do the same thing here.

[–] Facebones@reddthat.com 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Don't even have to go THAT far, I get called a commie for saying a 40 hour work week should provide basic shelter these days. 🤷

If we want to live in boring reality, it doesn't happen a LOT but way more than it should.

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[–] FakinUpCountryDegen@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (20 children)

I mean... I'm a capitalist who doesn't defend billionaires and also doesn't feel left out... ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

[–] huge_clock@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Right? There are pros and cons with every system. People disagree based on value judgements not based on misinterpretation of facts. People in their echo chambers will have you believe that everyone on the other side of the political spectrum all thinks the same way “the same people who say X also say Y!” Rarely is that the case. Most people are actually centrists who have their own independent beliefs on a wide range of topics.

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not everyone on my side of the political Spectrum thinks the same way. But if you are pro capitalist. You simply aren't thinking. Capital, markets, and currency. All existed before capitalism. The only thing capitalism did was justify the wealth and power of the wealthy and Powerful Beyond being simply born to wealthy powerful people. Now you get to be a wealthy powerful person by having capital. Which ironically just so happens to be most common among people born too powerful people. New boss same as the old boss. Funny how that works.

[–] TAG@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I hate capitalism, I just don't know of a better alternative. Nordic socialism is just capitalism with a big government. Soviet socialism failed miserably (it turns out, it is very hard to plan an economy). I have never heard a solid plan for communism that works on a national scale, never mind a plan for transitioning to such a society.

On the other hand, capitalism works reasonably well most of the time and we can just fix issues with it when they crop up (and we have a big backlog of issues to fix).

[–] Eldritch@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Capitalism does not work reasonably well most the time. Unchecked it leads to countless busts and Booms that leave the average person destitute. You really should look into the history of the early 20th century. The only reason we even still have capitalism. Is because of two massive world wars. Slaughtering and grinding up many tens of millions of people. As well as passage of basic Social Security nets. We've largely at least abandoned the spirit of. If if not in practice as well.

Capitalism has been a failure at every level. Constantly. That isn't a justification or Praise of leninism. There's a lot of other ideologies on the Socialist side Beyond leninism. And they don't require large National level government. Look into them sometime.

[–] Flumsy@feddit.de -1 points 1 year ago

Is there any system that is more fair and/or gives you more freedom? I havent found any.

On a hypothetically completely free capitalist market, I can sell and buy whatever I wish and the value that I get when selling directly correlates to the value I'm bringing to the buyer. If I generated a lot of value, I have more capital so I can also buy more value using that capital. Sounds fantastic in theory.

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