I would suffer a stroke and more, too, if my country wanted to deport my ass to a third world country like the USA.
this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2024
275 points (96.9% liked)
Technology
59772 readers
3115 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
all 43 comments
sorted by:
hot
top
controversial
new
old
The legal process in USA is not trustworthy, it's been shown time and again that USA punish people with extreme sentences to make an example of them. USA even tried to kidnap Kim Dotcom bypassing normal New Zealand procedure.
I have no particular sympathies for Kim Dotcom, but the way USA behaves in cases of "national interest" is scary.
Never forget Aaron Swartz! Who was driven to suicide, for copying data he had legal access to.
[deleted]
Do you think government employees should be able to break NDAs and publish state secrets without consequences? I support what Snowden did, but he is now a criminal and must be prosecuted as such.
Do you think government employees should be able to break NDAs and publish state secrets without consequences?
When it comes to government transparency? Yes, undoubtedly.
The criminals are those in government, but they own the system and will never go after themselves.
When it comes to government transparency? Yes, undoubtedly.
Yes, that’s why there are avenues for whistleblowers. Publicly sharing classified information is not one of them.
The criminals are those in government, but they own the system and will never go after themselves.
What’s the point of this statement? So because we can’t prosecute some criminals we shouldn’t prosecute anybody?
avenues for whistleblowers.
He tried those first, and only after nothing happened doing that, did he go public.
To stay silent about illegal activities is actually complicity. So in principle it would also have been illegal to stay silent!
He did not try those avenues, as there would be a record of it.
https://irp.fas.org/congress/2016_rpt/hpsci-snowden.pdf
Oh course, now you will say they are lying and they’re hiding the fact that he went through the proper channels.
The paper states:
As a legal matter, during his time with NSA, Edward Snowden did not use whistleblower procedures under either law or regulation to raise his objections to U.S. intelligence activities, and thus, is not onsidered a whistleblower under current law. He did not file a complaint with the DOD or IC IG's office
But what does that actually mean? When he actually went through the propper channels for his position? Department of Defense is a VERY wide organisation, and allegedly he did just that.
Claiming he us not a whistleblower, because a VERY specific procedure needs to be followed is just a legal cop out. It's an ambiguous law that can be used to burry shit indefinitely, and bent to be applied as they wish if people go public.
Snowden: I raised NSA concerns internally over 10 times ...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/edward-snowden-didnt-email-surveillance-concerns-officials/
"I actually did go through channels and that is documented," Snowden said. "The NSA has records. They have copies of emails right now to their Office of General Counsel, to their oversight and compliance folks, from me raising concerns about the NSA's interpretations of its legal authorities."
But what does that actually mean? When he actually went through the propper channels for his position? Department of Defense is a VERY wide organisation, and allegedly he did just that.
It means exactly that. File a complaint with the DOD or IC IG’s office.
Claiming he us not a whistleblower, because a VERY specific procedure needs to be followed is just a legal cop out. It's an ambiguous law that can be used to burry shit indefinitely, and bent to be applied as they wish if people go public.
Here you are saying the same wrong information for the third time. He does not qualify as a whistleblower because be publicly leaked classified information, there’s nothing ambiguous about that.
Snowden: I raised NSA concerns internally over 10 times…
…Snowden said. "The NSA has records. They have copies of emails right now to their Office of General Counsel, to their oversight and compliance folks, from me raising concerns about the NSA's interpretations of its legal authorities."
Right. He was able to copy millions of classified documents but forgot to get copies of the same emails that prove he raised concerns through the proper channels. This is the only email that there’s record of, and it was not even submitted by Snowden, but by the NSA.
According to the US, torture is legal when it's done by the US, which is a single example of how the federal US law does not reflect what is right, what is good, what is just.
[deleted]
The American People deserve the knowledge of what their government is doing. For too long has the government operate in crooked practices that only have made the people grow contempt and distrustful towards.
That is true, but unfortunately that’s not the law. It’s like smoking marihuana when it was illegal. Everyone knew it was harmless, but the law said to not smoke it so you shouldn’t. If you allow Snowden to break his confidentiality without consequences, you’re giving green light to everyone who wants to give classified information to foreign nations.
If the government is going to take, give back, take again and give back our rights while allowing itself to be influenced by corporate interests. It's fair game.
But it’s not fair game. The fact that it’s the right thing to do is not related to the fact that it’s illegal. You can say that Snowden did the right thing and that he’s a criminal that deserves prosecution. Both of those things can be true at the same time, and they are.
If you want to look for unjust prosecution, you look at Julian Assange’s case, not Snowden.
[deleted]
I'd like for you to try and justify all of the times that the U.S Government has broken the law. Laws that they've made and international law, unapologetically.
I never justify breaking the law. Everyone who breaks the law must be prosecuted and I never said otherwise. Unfortunately it’s hard to prosecute governments, specially from superpowers like the US.
Also, you're making some very weak comparisons. Snowden isn't like Trump.
At this point I believe you responded to the wrong person, because I also haven’t even mentioned Trump.
As a veteran, and former/ kinda current Captain, of the USN, yes. Provided that they fall under the protections for whistleblowers, which both Edward Snowden, and Chelsea Manning fell into rather neatly, according to US federal laws.
Illegal orders are illegal. Even the UCMJ agrees with that stance.
As a veteran, and former Captain, of the USN, yes.
Yeah I’m sure you believe that. How many documents did you leak? You obviously didn’t use your security clearance to leak classified documents, which makes you a hypocrite. “Do as I say, not as I do”. Also, being a former captain doesn’t really make your opinion more valuable than anybody else’s.
Provided that they fall under the protections for whistleblowers, which both Edward Snowden, and Chelsea Manning fell into rather neatly, according to US federal laws.
Then you should know that publicly revealing classified information is not considered whistleblowing under the law. So I guess that changes your “Yes” to a “No”, since it was a “Yes” provided the statement that followed.
Illegal orders are illegal. Even the UCMJ agrees with that stance.
It looks like you’re not well informed on the subject. Snowden didn’t just say bad things were happening and that the US was spying on citizens (which would’ve still been illegal anyways). He stole 1.5 million classified documents, although he says that he hasn’t shared them.
The truth is that whether you like it or not, Snowden is a criminal who knew what he was doing.
I was a Navy Nuclear Power Program Electronics Technician Instructor. All the documents that I had access to were well known in the civilian zeitgeist before I was born.
Snowden may have done something illegal, though my interpretation of both the UCMJ and Federal Whistleblower laws, as well as my recollection of what he released, says that you are a corporatist that is just salty that your favorite MIC corporation got outed for breaking federal laws.
Manning didn't break the law and still served an illegal sentence, so I will give Snowden and Asange the benefit of the doubt.
I'm sick and tired of US propaganda, much less the international versions.
Trump stole far more classified documents and that is just fine according to the law
you are a corporatist that is just salty that your favorite MIC corporation got outed for breaking federal law
Provides nothing to the discussion but an insane reach (I already said I agree with what Snowden did) and an insult.
Manning didn't break the law and still served an illegal sentence, so I will give Snowden and Asange the benefit of the doubt.
Here you are saying incorrect information again. I repeat, under the US law, leaking classified information to the public is not considered whistleblowing. Manning broke the law.
I'm sick and tired of US propaganda, much less the international versions.
I’m tired of all propaganda, including pro and anti-US propaganda. The US has enough issues as it is and there are enough reasons to condemn the current system. Making things up and defending criminal activities doesn’t help anybody.
Trump stole far more classified documents and that is just fine according to the law
Trump did not publicly leak any classified documents, he simply took them with him. It’s still illegal and was prosecuted for it, but this is not comparable to Manning or Snowden. By the way, Biden did the same thing.
Never forget Aaron Swartz
And judicial murderer Carmen Ortiz.
Absolutely, why wasn't she ever prosecuted? Why is it legal for a prosecutor to threaten to ruin peoples lives and put them to jail indefinitely?
Basically all they had on him, was trespassing at the most!!
It's technically second world, now that is aligned with russia
Correct, but those terms only applies during the cold War.
Oh...oh no...
...wait a minute...
Didn't he tried to fake his death once?
I might start to truly believe in karma.
Oh come on. There are definitely some people that ruined many lives and - from a certain point of view - would deserve death, but he is not one of them.
He did ruin many lives tho. + he his a fascist crap 😬
He litteraly had employees he told not to move to punish them if I remember right. And that is one of the most soft bad thing he did.
I have no love for KdC.
I would like to see some sources there, as I remember him getting arrested, and as far as I remember, the worst he did was piracy, hosting of piracy, and potentially illegal dissemination of patents. Oh and possibly hosting some potentially illegal VPNs
He basically invented the whole "sueing people for illegal file sharing" industry together with his lawyer
Fuck that guy
Yeah, I understood that he was pretty scummy, even for a self professed "pirate," it was the faschist accusation I wanted clarity on. I didn't get any indication that the guy was interested in assisting any corporations, nor was he trying to help authoritarian ideologues.
I may have totally missed the fascist part since I was far more interested in the pirate part. I personally don't consider KdC to be an actual digital pirate, since he didn't seem to give one single shit about the free flow of information.
I also don't consider him a nautical pirate since he seemed to be making far more booty than a ship's charter would have allowed, and especially since he wasn't sharing the booty with anyone at all, as far as I can tell. Pirates were some of the original "communist entrepreneurs," AKA the original democratic co-op.
It wasn't pretty, but if someone like KdC became a pirate captain, his reign would be ended by his own crew. Probably spearheaded by the ship's boatswain (accountant, pronounced like bōsn or bōsün), quartermaster, (the guy with the swords and guns in the armory, also the guy who makes the shift schedule with the boatswain's recommendations), or the ship's doctor who regularly knew how much food or medical supplies were left, and could easily recruit the ship's cook into the "mutiny," or change of command.
KdC should have lost everyone that represented those keys to power within months of him setting up his scheme.
Wishing death upon someone because they are a libertarian (or hold whatever other opinion you disagree with) is trashy
Lemmy in a nutshell. Certain instances a lot more than others tho.
Average blahaj.zone poster
Nah that's one of the chill ones.
If you remove the tankie instances, blahaj.zone is probably the most toxic one.
Had exactly the same thought. And it was so peaceful after blocking lemmygrad and .ml, I almost got used to it.
Think I need to block their instance as well.