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Nextcloud, Qbittorrent, Truenas and loads of other svcs take optional email credentials for sending alerts and other features (eg. password recovery for nextcloud).

What email providers do people usually use to make this process simple to set up? For example, Microsoft doesn't allow basic auth anymore so it's supposedly not possible to use via most of these setups, and some other services seem like they have a low inbox size (does this matter?)

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[–] dkc@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago

I do this with my home network using FastMail. You can create App specific passwords for each service you add email notification support for. This means you don’t risk compromising your full accounts passwords. You can also put constraints on each app password, such as limiting it only to sending emails but not reading email or looking at your contacts and files. This is nice in case any of my passwords are leaked.

[–] SirMaple__@lemmy.world 8 points 20 hours ago

Self hosted ntfy and mailrise. Mailrise is a wrapper for apprise that let's you send emails to it and in turn converts the email to the desired push alert.

For password resets or account creation welcome emails I'd use a SMTP service. I use SMTP2GO for those. Free plan is something 1000 emails a month. I've been using them for a year and think I've sent maybe 5 or 10 emails.

[–] harsh3466@lemmy.ml 7 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

PurelyMail is what I use. It's been great so far. I've been using it for over a year for this exact use case.

[–] callcc@lemmy.world 1 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

They rock.I'm sometimes afraid they will be bought or change terms.

[–] Chewy7324@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

Given it seems to be a single guy doing his thing I don't expect them to get bought out.

It's a great service and incredibly cheap. With advanced pricing I'm only paying ~0,40€ per month. My domain + purelymail is less than I'd pay for other providers email only.

Edit: If Amazon increases their prices they'll have to pass it on, but those should be pretty consistent. If you use your own domain (or an alias service) switching email providers is simple anyway.

[–] peregus@lemmy.world 4 points 21 hours ago

I use SMTP2GO (with my own domain) with the free plan (1000 email per month) that's way over a selfhoster needs.

[–] ouch@lemmy.world 2 points 19 hours ago

Find out if your ISP provides an SMTP smarthost.

Worth noting that in Finland they are also by law required to log metadata of delivered mails.

[–] walden@sub.wetshaving.social 1 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

I use gmail. You just have to set up an "app" password. I always have to search for how to do that, but once you have an app password you're off and running.

I also just started hosting my own nfty and have been moving as much as possible to that. So far I've replaced two email notifications with push notifications, which is nice.

[–] Zachariah@lemmy.world 2 points 20 hours ago

FastMail is nice.

or (I don’t recommend it) you could learn to:

[–] Samsy@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago

Stalwart mail

[–] conrad82@lemmy.world 2 points 23 hours ago

I'm using smtp gotify , been using it for a while now and it seems OK for alerts and outer features

https://github.com/jreiml/smtp-gotify

[–] IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz 2 points 23 hours ago

You only need SMTP server, so the inbox size doesn't matter (assuming you have another email where you want to receive those notifications). And even if you have separate inbox for alerts it's quite unlikely that you get hundreds of megabytes worth of alerts every day and they're pretty much useless after a day or two so there's no need to keep them around.

In here ISPs commonly have SMTP service included on their service, so that's worth checking. Beyond than that, any at least somewhat reputable provider will do as long as they provide traditional SMTP service. One option is to use a relay host on local network which sends mail trough a smart host so you can just use local unauthenticated SMTP server for all the things you run and that one service will then push the messages to the internet.

[–] HybridSarcasm@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

I use docker-mail-server

[–] StrawberryPigtails@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 22 hours ago

I started running into the same problem about 2 years ago. Found a company called Send in Blue ( which has since been bought and is now called Brevo). They're a commercial mail sender but have a free tier. How long that will continue to be available, I don't know, but for now it solves my email sending issues.

[–] souperk@reddthat.com 1 points 22 hours ago

I ended up setting up a postal server on my vps (see here). Their docs are pretty easy to follow through and it's probably the cheapest option (assuming you already use the and have a domain).

[–] Xanza@lemm.ee 0 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Email is like, the worst possible option. Check out Apprise. Super easy to setup Telegram or Discord notifications via webhooks. Takes like a minute.

[–] ikidd@lemmy.world 2 points 16 hours ago

Under things me and my users notice aren't working right away, at the top of the list is email. So I notice when those alerts aren't able to get through, because if email is down I have my phone ringing off the hook because my dad can't get to his online auctions to see if he won that toaster for $5. So email is like, the best option.

[–] mhzawadi@lemmy.horwood.cloud -2 points 23 hours ago

I moved to Google workspace for email, yes I know it Google.

I have my home IP and dedi IP in the routing settings, then just use SMTP to Google and let them forward to me.

All servers have null mail installed and setup for Google, I also have docker containers with config if needed

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org -4 points 23 hours ago (5 children)

Email is my biggest frustration in self-hosting. So many services are dependent on it for reasons no one seems to be able to explain. It costs money to run it. And just the experience of email is atrocious. I don't understand why we haven't moved on from it. We have browser notifications, we have app notifications (both via big tech and NTFY), we have a thousand other chat platforms you can communicate through. It just boggles my mind that we haven't moved away from this archaic technology.

[–] IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz 5 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

It just boggles my mind that we haven’t moved away from this archaic technology.

None of the alternatives are as standardized as plain old email. You can use whatever you like to read them, you don't have to rely on a single company like Meta with WhatsApp for communication, it's easy to use, pretty damn reliable and fault resistant and just ticks all the boxes you'll ever need for a simple message delivery.

Personally I would absolutely hate if software started to offer notifications only on slack or signal or whatever. Just let me have my email and I can then read it with a browser in library, on my cellphone, on my desktop and laptop and on pretty much every other internet connected device on the planet. And if I want, I can pass that trough to teams, sms, all the messaging platforms and even straight to my printer should I need to. With other message delivery options that's often either pretty difficult or straight up impossible.

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org -1 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

You can use whatever you like to read them, you don't have to rely on a single company like Meta with WhatsApp for communication

Decentralization is not a concept that is reserved for SMTP

Personally I would absolutely hate if software started to offer notifications only on slack or signal or whatever.

No one suggested such a thing. I suggested several other alternatives that aren't reliant on any particular company or service, and are easier to run and manage without requiring approval from your ISP or whatever else.

With other message delivery options that's often either pretty difficult or straight up impossible.

With other options you wouldn't need to because they already provide the features you're looking for in those apps.

[–] IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz -1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

aren’t reliant on any particular company or service, and are easier to run and manage without requiring approval from your ISP

What other than email provides that? Browser notifications generally don't work on mobile. Most of the common instant messengers rely on a single instance running the thing if you're not suggesting sending messages via IRC or XMPP (or matrix or...) which have their own problems. App notifications require that you have the thing which app is running to be available and online and they more often that not require some spesific device. Also even if you had linux desktop "app" it requires that the software is running.

Also I have not met an ISP which would block sending email via gmail/amazon/protonmail/whoever. Sure, my current ISP blocks tcp/25 to the world by default, but you can request to open that too if you really want to and ports 587 and 465 are open, so you can work around that if you don't want a smarthost for some reason.

With other options you wouldn’t need to because they already provide the features you’re looking for in those apps.

Which other protocol allows notifications at the same time on all the mobile devices, all the workstations and allow easy way to send the very same message to arbitary amount of recipients to all of their devices? I had email on a palm pilot device at 2001 or so, over mobile data with IRDA and you can read email even with Commodore 64 if you really want to (well, to be more spesific, use C=64 as an terminal for *nix server to access email, I think there's no actual IMAP/POP client for it). There's just no way for any other modern service to even try to compete with versatility with email.

And then there's the more sopisthicated approaches like pushing email trough however complex procmail/perl/python/whatever scripting you like where you can develop quite literally whatever you can imagine. Set up a old fire alarm bell, hook it up to your home automation, process incoming emails and if it's severe enough turn the bell on. Sure, at least a some of that is possible via instant messengers too, but with email I can be pretty sure that if I write a script today for it it'll still run quite happily for the next 10-15 years.

Please do tell me which of the modern messaging alternatives offer all of that.

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org -1 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

What other than email provides that?

Matrix? For one?

Browser notifications generally don't work on mobile.

...of course they do?

if you're not suggesting sending messages via IRC or XMPP (or matrix or...) which have their own problems.

Among others. Email has much bigger problems.

App notifications require that you have the thing which app is running to be available and online and they more often that not require some spesific device

I have no idea what any of that means...

Also I have not met an ISP which would block sending email via gmail/amazon/protonmail/whoever.

Which makes no difference when self-hosting...

Which other protocol

See above.

you can read email even with Commodore 64

I...don't know what that's supposed to mean. You want to argue that email is superior because it's old? You can run a Mastodon server on a Commodore as well.

There's just no way for any other modern service to even try to compete with versatility with email.

Yes? There are a hundred ways.

Set up a old fire alarm bell, hook it up to your home automation, process incoming emails and if it's severe enough turn the bell on.

...why wouldn't you just send the signal directly to the server?

[–] IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz -1 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

I have no idea what any of that means…

That checks out. You conveniently skipped the part where I requested a single messaging solution which works with either modern android/ios devices or with anything you'll find in your dad's(or grandads I guess) drawer, can manage multiple recipients, escalations to sms/home automation bells, works reliably even if the uplink goes down for few hours and so on.

And no, you very much can not run mastodon server on a Commodore 64.

But you seem like a young and enthustiatic individual. I was one "a few" years ago. Keep it going, but that arrogant attitude won't get you anywhere. Email has been a thing since the 1970s and there's a reason why it's still going strong. Things like XMPP has been around for a good while and there's a reason why they're not even close of overtaking email as a primary communication technology around.

You'll live and learn. My guess is that when you reach my age, email is still working just fine and majority of the hot stuff which is around right now has faded to the history.

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org -1 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

You conveniently skipped the part

I didn't skip anything. The solutions I listed support all of that, with the possible exception of running on old shit which...why is that even remotely relevant?

you very much can not run mastodon server on a Commodore 64.

You absolutely can. There's an entire community dedicated to running Mastodon servers on old hardware.

Email has been a thing since the 1970s and there's a reason why it's still going strong.

Is it ignorant old farts refusing to embrace new technology?

Things like XMPP has been around for a good while and there's a reason why they're not even close of overtaking email as a primary communication technology around.

Because it came around after email and all the old farts were too committed to it to learn something new? Is it because tech oligarchs learned from their lessons and embraced, extended, exploited, and abandoned open standards? What is the reason? You tell me.

email is still working just fine and majority of the hot stuff which is around right now has faded to the history.

It doesn't work "just fine", it's fucking awful. Outside of trying to host it, just using it is a nightmare. Trying to find any information is a nightmare because there's no common communication thread, and the emails are chock full of unnecessary bloat, and everyone has a fucking signature that's a mile long and full of giant images. You can't send videos. There's a bunch of tracking features built into it. It's insecure. Like, the list goes on...

[–] IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz 0 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

you very much can not run mastodon server on a Commodore 64.

You absolutely can.

Ok. Send me the link of disk image of that. I have C64 laying around with 1541 disk drive. I'll set up a public mastodon instance running on a C64 with a webcam stream of the setup.

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org 1 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

I don't know where to find that information. I've just seen it running.

[–] IsoKiero@sopuli.xyz 0 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Commodore 64 is a home computer released at 1982. Modern expansions for it allows the thing to actually have tcp/ip stack and it can run things like telnet, but your single mastodon server, in comparison of what was available in 1980s, is pretty much equal of the whole bandwidth and storage of the internet (or arpanet, depending on how you want to time things).

Mastodon server requires (roughly) at least 2 gigabytes of memory and 20 gigabytes of storage. And with that it needs at least dual core 2GHz CPU to run it.

Commodore 64 had 1Mhz. A million hertz sounds like a big number, but we're talking (at minimum) of two processor cores running with 2000 million hertz. Also, C=64 had 64 000 bytes of memory while the absolute minimum to run mastodon instance is 2 000 000 000 bytes.

And then there's the storage. Your minimum mastodon instance should have at least 20GB of storage. 1541 used 5,25" floppy disks which could store up to 170 kilobytes. So you'd need someone to change disks as needed on a over 400 meter tall tower of floppy disks.

So, please tell me again where to get disk images to run mastodon server on a C=64 and how you just know that plain old email is garbage and old people just don't know what they're talking about.

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org 0 points 17 hours ago

I know what a Commodore 64 is, brother. And you can ask all you want where to find that information. And I can keep telling you I don't know.

[–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 3 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (1 children)

Because it's universal, it works, it's multi-platform, device agnostic and it's simple to use user side.

Nothing else available really fits that criteria.

The closest in todays age is probally discord or teams, but neither of which are decentralized. XMPP could work for it, but nobody really uses it anymore and to be honest the standard is ugly as hell to implement.

Browser Notifications are ineffective and have a high probability of failing or not being seen, they are more meant for real-time notices not historical notices not to mention locked to that browser.

App notifications would be amazing for things with apps, but not everyone wants to be forced into using their mobile device for everything, and it would again only be available from said app(unless you do use something like NTFY), which would generally be locked down to a device

Email sucks admin side, but there's a reason its used.

This is also ignoring the multi-use case that email allows for such as authentication as well, so if its already being stored for accounts, might as well use it for notifications

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org -2 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

Because it's universal, it works, it's multi-platform, device agnostic and it's simple to use user side. Nothing else available really fits that criteria.

I already listed a handful of other platforms that check all those same things without being a pain in the ass to host, being sucky to use, or requiring approval from your ISP.

XMPP could work for it, but nobody really uses it anymore and to be honest the standard is ugly as hell to implement.

Uglier than email? Nah.

it would again only be available from said app(unless you do use something like NTFY)

Yes, NTFY is another example I already gave.

which would generally be locked down to a device

No it's not.

so if its already being stored for accounts, might as well use it for notifications

It shouldn't be used for accounts. That was my entire point. I host a dozen services and half of them no one else can use because the software mandates email verification, which I can't use because my ISP doesn't think I should be allowed to for some reason.

[–] schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business 3 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Universiality, basically: almost everyone, everywhere has an email account, or can find one for free. As well as every OS and every device has a giant pile of mail clients for you to chose from.

And I mean, email is a simple tech stack and well understood and reliable: I host an internal mail server for notifications and updates and shit, and it's rapid, fast, and works perfectly.

It's only when you suddenly need to email someone OTHER than your local shit that it turns to complete shit.

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org -4 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Universiality, basically

Okay so we're just stuck with email permanently, forever, even when there are a hundred other objectively superior alternatives? No one wants to be the one to push that needle forward?

Are browser notifications not universal?

[–] neatobuilds@lemmy.today 6 points 23 hours ago (2 children)

I rather have an email than a browser notification, email is more passive I can check it when I want to and it'll be there, browser depending on which machine I'm on is going to get wiped when I close it

[–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 2 points 21 hours ago

hard agree, I hate browser notifications with a hard passion, I would never see them if they swapped to that.

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 2 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

How do you send a browser notification if the browser is closed?

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org -5 points 22 hours ago

I don't know how to answer that. That's just how they work.

[–] merthyr1831@lemmy.ml 1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

I don't have much issue with email as a technology. It does what it needs to do, and does it well. The client side software is what hasn't budged in years - Search barely works, files and attachments are cumbersome, and spam is still rampant.

It would be much cheaper and easier if users weren't centralised under a few big providers that prefer to bar any and all access to said users if you're self hosting, making it almost mandatory to use a private service.

[–] Ulrich@feddit.org -2 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

The issue is that my ISP blocks it. And so any service that requires it is inherently broken.

The solution to spam is to require invitations.