this post was submitted on 15 Mar 2025
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Linux

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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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[–] azvasKvklenko@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

What you’re referring to as Linux is actually Uutils/Linux…

[–] lud@lemm.ee -2 points 1 hour ago

Sounds good to me.

I actually prefer the MIT license too. It's more open.

[–] adrianhooves@lemmy.today 1 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

this means ubuntu is no longer a linux distro?? because if linux hardcore people think that linux is kernel+gnu then that means both android and ubuntu are not distros!! i believe the opposite, linux kernel? linux distro of course!! and ubuntu is the android of linux distros even if android is a linux distro itself

[–] JustVik@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 hours ago

Ubuntu is no longer GNU/Linux distro. Linux is just a kernel.:)

Ubuntu already wasn't a linux distro nor is android. They're different operating system which use the Linux kernel.

[–] adrianhooves@lemmy.today 1 points 3 hours ago

oh no!! wait but that means that xubuntu will still be around?? because as far as i know, xfce has some elements that use agpl and that would interfere with some rust code and would hurt xubuntu. would that make xubuntu stop existing?

[–] krolden@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 hours ago

Fuck Ubuntu fuck MIT fuck everything

[–] feanpoli@lemmy.ml 60 points 13 hours ago (3 children)

While shifting to Rust might be a good idea for improving safety and performance, adopting the MIT license represents a fundamental change that will enable large tech companies to develop and distribute proprietary software based on the new MIT-licensed Core Utilities. This shift moves away from the original vision of the project which was to ensure that the software remains free and open as enshrined in the GPL's copyleft principles. The permissive nature of the MIT license also will increase fragmentation, as it allows proprietary forks that diverge from the main project. This could weaken the community-driven development model and potentially lead to incompatible versions of the software.

Open source has been captured and corporatized.

But Ubuntu has always been extremely corporate.

[–] pmk@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Do large tech companies contribute a lot to the GPL coreutils?

[–] feanpoli@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

Yes, they do. The GPL's copyleft clause requires companies to release the source code of any modifications they distribute, ensuring contributions back to the community. The MIT license, however, allows proprietary forks without this obligation. In other terms, the MIT license is effectively permitting companies to "jump out" of the open-source ecosystem they make use of.

[–] pmk@lemmy.sdf.org 0 points 3 hours ago (2 children)

I know, but do they? Has big tech contributed to the code base significantly for coreutils specifically? sed and awk or ls has been the same as long as I remember, utf8 support has been added, but I doubt apple or google was behind that.

[–] feanpoli@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 hours ago

As far as I’m aware, contributions from major corporations to GNU Core Utilities specifically (e.g. sed, awk, ls) have been limited. Most development has historically come from the GNU community and individual contributors. For example, UTF-8 support was likely added through community efforts rather than corporate involvement. However, as these corporations increasingly back projects moving away from GNU and the GPL, their intent to leverage the permissive nature of the MIT license becomes evident. Should 'uutils' gain widespread adoption, it would inevitably lead to a significant shift in governance.

[–] crimsonpoodle@pawb.social 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Intel does a lot, by which I mean they sponsor people to do it. Changing user facing utils is a bad idea as it breaks things. Although I don’t really keep up with it I know they’ve been changing things like the number of levels of pages etc, over time moving to sysd instead of init and stuff but the latter was a decade ago now. You can probably trace the maintainer to who sponsors them from here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel_version_history

[–] pmk@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 29 minutes ago

Kernel yes, but coreutils? It's ls, sleep, who, pwd, and so on.

[–] Abnorc@lemm.ee 2 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

If this happened, would Ubuntu based operating systems be impacted as well? I might start to learn Debian or LMDE if so.

[–] MrMakabar@slrpnk.net 4 points 5 hours ago

MIT license is still open source, so Ubuntu based operating systems can still be open source. The problem is that this makes it less needed that they have to be. However most current projects will probably stay proper open source projects and likely continue to use a better license.

[–] mactan@lemmy.ml 55 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

genuinely my only problem with it is the license. I really hate how much stuff is mit or apache now. I've seen some really nice projects get taken over and privatized in the last few years and nobody has learned

[–] bunitor@lemmy.eco.br 16 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

sadly, i think that's exactly the reason why so many gnu coreutils/libc/compiler competitors keep croping up: people want to get rid of the gpl as much as possible. if they could replace the linux kernel with a non gpl variant they would

not that the people creating the projects necessarily have this intention, but the projects are certainly being picked up and sponsored mainly for that reason

[–] Mwa@lemm.ee 22 points 15 hours ago

Can't wait for proprietary apps to not work on distros that still use gnu core utilities.

[–] that_leaflet@lemmy.world 69 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Clickbait. The VP Engineering for Ubuntu made a post that he was looking into using the Rust utils for Ubuntu and has been daily driving them and encouraged others to try

It’s by no means certain this will be done.

[–] 0_o7@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 16 hours ago

Clickbait

With mental outlaw, it's usually that or ragebait, to rile up his audience.

[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 8 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

Clickbait. The VP Engineering for Ubuntu made a post that he was looking into using the Rust utils for Ubuntu and has been daily driving them and encouraged others to try

It’s by no means certain this will be done.

Here is that post. It isn't certain to happen, but he doesn't only say that he is daily driving them. He says his goal is to make them the default in 25.10:

My immediate goal is to make uutils’ coreutils implementation the default in Ubuntu 25.10, and subsequently in our next Long Term Support (LTS) release, Ubuntu 26.04 LTS, if the conditions are right.

[–] EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

His goal.

A VP could have the goal to increase profits by 500% over the next 6 months but that doesn't mean it's gonna happen.

It might happen, but just because someone says it's their goal is no confirmation that it will happen.

VPs don't have total control over profits, but they do have total control over which version of coreutils is in the product they release.

[–] lengau@midwest.social 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yeah this particular guy also loves doing insane things to his machine. He's absolutely mental in a wonderful way.

My personal take on anything Jon does based on my experience with his delightful antics is that the only thing we can say for sure is if it doesn't work for him it's just not going to happen. His blog is pretty great to follow.

[–] that_leaflet@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Huh, he mains NixOS. Always a bit funny to see someone daily driving a distro different than what they professionally work on.

I thought I recognized that blog, I remember reading his blog TPM+FDE for NixOS back when I was trying NixOS.

[–] olosta@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago (1 children)

One of the main developers presented this project at FOSDEM.

https://fosdem.org/2025/schedule/event/fosdem-2025-6196-rewriting-the-future-of-the-linux-essential-packages-in-rust-/

(He is a Mozilla employee but made a point to tell it was not affiliated with Mozilla and was working on it on his spare time)

Then it's not too late to tell him it must be GPL.

[–] BJ_and_the_bear@lemm.ee 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Hopefully it’s drop in compatible with GNU coreutils else a lot of scripts are gonna break

[–] hackeryarn@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago

That’s the project’s goal and they have 100% comparability across quite a few of the tools. Definitely still a ways to go before they can fully replace all of coreutils, but Ubuntu’s goal is to replace the tools peace meal with the once that are ready.

[–] shy_mia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Waiting for the Rust haters to get unjustifiedly mad again...

[–] Badabinski@kbin.earth 44 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I love rust and projects rewritten in Rust, but I've felt pretty mixed about this particular project. The strong copyleft on GNU coreutils is part of what keeps many Linux distros truly free. There's stuff like BusyBox or BSD coreutils if you need something you can make non-free, but GNU coreutils are just so nice. I wish this reimplementation in rust had been licensed with GPL or a similar copyleft license. At least there's no CLA with copyright transfer.

[–] shy_mia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 18 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Yeah the licensing is a bit worrying, but it's not a language issue.

[–] moonpiedumplings@programming.dev 6 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (2 children)

It actually is a language issue.

Although rust can dynamically link with C/C++ libraries, it cannot dynamically link with other Rust libraries. Instead, they are statically compiled into the binary itself.

But the GPL interacts differently with static linking than with dynamic. If you make a static binary with a GPL library or GPL code, your program must be GPL. If you dynamically link a GPL library, you're program doesn't have to be GPL. It's partially because of this, that the vast majority of Rust programs and libraries are permissively licensed — to make a GPL licensed rust library would mean it would see much less use than a GPL licensed C library, because corporations wouldn't be able to extend proprietary code off of it — not that I care about that, but the library makers often do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License#Libraries — it's complicated.

EDIT: Nvm I'm wrong. Rust does allow dynamic linking

Hmmmm. But it seems that people really like to compile static rust binaries, however, due to their portability across Linux distros.

EDIT2: Upon further research it seems that Rust's dynamic linking implementation lacks a "stable ABI" as compared to other languages such as Swift or C. So I guess we are back to "it is a language issue". Well thankfully this seems easier to fix than "Yeah Rust doesn't support dynamic linking at all.".

[–] shy_mia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 8 hours ago

As long as two binaries are compiled with the same version of the Rust compiler, they are ABI compatible. Even if the compiler version differs, I've found that changes to the ABI are fairly uncommon. Furthermore, anything exposed through the C ABI is stable, so the problem can be circumvented if needed. It's not the most ergonomic solution, admittedly, but with some compromises dynamic linking is perfectly feasible.

[–] killeronthecorner@lemmy.world 1 points 11 hours ago

The lack of ABI stability in Rust means they don't have to commit to language changes that may prove to be unpopular or poorly designed later.

Swift went through the same growing pains and, IMO, has suffered for it a bit with even quite basic code often needing lots of availability checks. This may seem counter intuitive but Swift is in the unique(-ish) position of having to serve both a huge corporation demanding significant evolution on a regular basis and a cross platform community that don't want to write an encyclopedia every time a major version of the language is rolled out.

Rust doesn't have this issue and I think it's right for them to allow themselves the freedom to correct language design errors until it gains more traction as a systems language - and it's quite exciting that we're seeing that traction happen now in realtime!

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