this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2023
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Memes

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[–] Haus@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Basing your opinions on socialism on how Russia implemented it makes about as much sense as basing an opinion on Democracy on how Putin has implemented it.

[–] sudo22@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Legit question, what country is a better real world example?

[–] Soup@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Communism, like capitalism, is an extreme that has certain, very difficult to achieve, requirements. Capitalism needs everyone to be morally decent in order for companies to focus on winning customers through innovation instead of propganda and lobbying, and to accept losses instead of whining. Even the transition into communism is incredibly complicated and technically what where the USSR was stuck, and once there you have to hope that the rest of the world went along with it because it’ll work either on increbily small scales(individual companies, for example) or on a global scale but not really on a mid-sized scale. Plus in both you have basic greed and people who are literally just born narcissitic or legitimately psychotic.

Extreme ideologies are great thought experiments but rarely have any kind of well-developed protections built and are pretty fragile.

If you want a better answer, look at the quality of life in countries with stronger regulations and more communism-according-to-North America systems. In the heavily privatised U.S. there are a lot of people who live absolutely shit lives due to an abyssmal lack of protections. Even in Canada, which is far too close to the U.S. here, at least a homeless person can recieve some level of medical assistance including major surgeries and Covid stimulus was more than a cheap joke.

Extreme

[–] dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 year ago

This meme doesn’t work, because in the scene the image comes from, we have every reason to believe Ron Swanson actually does know more than the employee at the hardware store.

[–] Prunebutt@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Considering that the USSR only claimed to be socialist and used propaganda (in accord with the US) to convince the people that state control is the same as worker's control over the means of production (it isn't), the girl is probably correct.

[–] dansity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sir we are not doing reasons here, this is a meme sub.

[–] Prunebutt@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago

Memes can still be incoherent.

[–] spacesweedkid27@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

2 things:

  1. The victors write history

  2. After Lenin the USSR was not really communist anymore but more really a totalitarian state that didn't believe in the values of communism. Just like China.

Everything would probably have been better if Lenin didn't die so fast and then Trotsky would have ruled.

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[–] Titou@feddit.de 1 points 10 months ago

Never did any research, did you ?

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

What people who lived in the Soviet union and other socialist states have to say:

This study shows that unprecedented mortality crisis struck Eastern Europe during the 1990s, causing around 7 million excess deaths. The first quantitative analysis of the association between deindustrialization and mortality in Eastern Europe.

[–] Flyberius@hexbear.net 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Some small business tyrant, who left the USSR when they were four and who doesn't pay his staff, telling me how bad the Soviet Union was.

[–] FuckyWucky@hexbear.net 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
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[–] duderium@hexbear.net 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why is it that people living in former Soviet states overwhelmingly wish that the USSR was still around?

[–] Zastyion345@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I live in former ussr state, 90% of those people are very old, and as to why ? Nostalgia. They always overlook the bad and only bring up the good.

[–] ThereRisesARedStar@hexbear.net 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Have you considered there are other reasons besides nostalgia? Like the massive life expectancy and qol collapse under capitalism?

https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/32fb41e8-a5d4-41c0-9001-b3103bb43898.png

I wonder why they might be nostalgic

[–] Zastyion345@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

reasons besides nostalgia

Oh yea, like if you are religious you are a threat to the state and therefore you are unfit for basically any leading role, or your property might be confiscated and you might be sent of to Siberia ?

Lines for food namely bread and if the stars aligned meat.

Big amount of corruption ?

Mandatory conscription to the military (and the corruption there too) ?

Iron curtain ?

Free speech and freedom of expression ?

And much more. That my parents had to live trough/knew that happened to others, information on a graph can only tell you so much. I am my self Atheist, although I do believe there might be higher being, so I do not blame others for believing in them, but as a normal human being I hate when religion is pushed to my face. I also believe there needs to be government regulation to big businesses and love some of the things that are in socialism.

massive life expectancy

I don't know much about life expectancy in the USSR, can you maybe link some sources, articles I would love to read up on it.

qol collapse under capitalism

Not familiar with "qol" can you explain a bit further ? If you mean quality of life, then I feel, at least for my parents it has improved massively.

Edit: Formatting errors.

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[–] Son_of_dad@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Pretty much Lemmy. I grew up in a communist civil war, hosing blood off my sidewalk was a weekly chore, the neighbors vanishing cause they pissed someone off and were labeled red. But yeah, Lemmy teens, you guys know all about it! /S

[–] CluckN@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Erm pushes up glasses that wasn’t real communism because real communism works.

[–] Album@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Lol ya right?!

The NSDAP was a real socialist party.

The Democratic Peoples Republic of North Korea is actually democratic and governed by the people.

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[–] Erika2rsis@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 year ago

※The person who lived in the USSR was born in December of 1991

[–] Pieresqi@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Ah yes, "communism". Op show me 1 country with communism. Dictatorship with 'communism' in their name don't count.

[–] Sami_Uso@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wait are you telling me the Democratic Republic of North Korea is neither Democratic or a Republic?? Like they'd just lie?

[–] jcg@halubilo.social 0 points 1 year ago

You can't do that???

[–] mindbleach@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

I can name several countries that tried to do a communism, and wound up being what communists insist doesn't count.

[–] Aux@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Communism IS a dictatorship. There's no other way.

[–] ReakDuck@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I thought that dictatorship masked themself as Communism

[–] TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Communism, especially Marxist-Leninism, seems to require some sort of benevolent dictator who is willing to work towards destroying their own power, which obviously never seems to happen. ML theories state the need for a Vanguard state, which is a dictatorship that is supposed to be there to simply enforce the rule of the working class until a time when it is no longer needed.

So the idea of dictatorship is built into the major form of communism that has been tried, basically. One of the main problems with this is that the steps a nation has to take before it gets to "true communism" in ML theory are ripe for abuse, and hard to get through without someone corrupt seizing power.

I think there are some good theories in Marx writings, it's just the methods for attempting to implement it definitely need to be reexamined because they don't work.

[–] Murais@lemmy.one 0 points 1 year ago

This is where I tend to disagree with Marx as well.

Capital is a fantastic book full of scathing and prophetic analyses of capitalism and its innate degradation of value and connection.

The Communist Manifesto is a book with some good ideas but some implementation that I find flawed. And that's not a knock on Marx-- critiquing problems is a significantly easier prospect than offering solutions.

But a lot of Marx's proposals for the implementation of Communism are rooted in authoritarianism, even if their end goal is the dissolution of the state and capital. Also, for an ideology versed in the formation and interdependence of worker communities, the Day of the Rope is kind of antithetical to establishing solidarity and mostly serves, I believe, as masturbatory schadenfreude.

But hey, I'm willing to fix some of the stuff that doesn't work instead of throwing more fuel into the machine that over-harvests people and our planet to the point of destruction.

I really like this nuanced take, btw. Thanks for posting it.

[–] JasSmith@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I’ve never met anyone who hates communism more than the colleagues of mine who grew up under communism. Their neighbours disappeared for saying the wrong things. They were hungry and cold as children every day. Sometimes they didn’t have any shoes. They weren’t allowed to leave their country for holidays. They couldn’t afford it, even if they were allowed. They couldn’t study what they wanted. Their entire educational system was political propaganda. Freedom of religion didn’t exist.

It always amazes me how the most vocal proponents of communism come from the most sheltered, most privileged people alive who would retch from learning about the atrocities committed in the name of communism. If they only spent a few minutes on Google.

[–] pjhenry1216@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (11 children)

You're technically describing the downsides of authoritarianism, bordering on dictatorship, not communism. That being said, I don't believe communism would work either. Communism isn't the only system at play in those scenarios. Again, not defending communism as a good thing, just that the given reasons aren't actually due to communism but other parallel systems that were implemented at those times.

[–] Endorkend@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The only way communism can work is if it's not run by people.

You'd need something like a benevolent AI overlord.

The problem with all forms of government and economy is that it involves human beings.

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[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I don't think anyone is advocating for literal communism. They are advocating for social programs like, you know, universal healthcare and good public schools. Which the Gop and Fox have to scream is communism to scare people.

[–] JasSmith@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There are definitely people advocating for actual communism. Social programs in a democracy are worlds away from communism. We have universal healthcare in Europe without communism.

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[–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
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