This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Once again a misleading headline: No, Nissan isn't evil trying to force people to buy a new car (Edit: well maybe a bit, see replies). Those older cars rely on 2G connectivity, which is soon to be shut down in the UK, so they are sunsetting support for the features relying on it..
TL;DR: The 2G network they rely on is shutting down.
Well this isn’t really true. The 2G network won’t be shut down for another 6-10 years. They are using it as an excuse to turn off their servers and save some money without supporting people they have already taken money from.
I'm not in the UK so I don't really know, I'm just saying the headline is misleading, and I'm just summarizing the article. Yes, I checked again, the article does mention the networks won't go down immediately, so maybe Nissan is a bit evil, or maybe there's something else the article isn't saying.
As a UK Nissan Leaf owner I’ll explain, they basically have given up on existing customers. They don’t really care about us anymore. The app works okay and does the bare minimum but it is clunky and slow. They have a new app for all models over 2019 or 2020 and it works better and is significantly easier for them to update and maintain.
The 3G service in the UK will go first as the 2G service provides a lot of emergency failover. The 2G network has around 10 years of service left and even then will probably be left on longer.
They want rid of as many old app users as possible so they can save money on server and development costs, the problem is that even modern 2018 Leaf version still uses the crappy app and have 3G cellular which will fall back to the 2G side when the 3G goes (before the 2G cellular is fazed out) so to blame it on 2G is disingenuous as they still have to support the app for the 3G models and still have to use those on the 2G network as the 3G will go first. I looked at upgrading the module to a 3G or 4G but there is no point because even if you do that they are pulling the app functionality for the car rather than the signal.
There is an ODB add on by open vehicles that will restore the service and is actually loads better but is a bit of a janky hack. https://www.openvehicles.com/ we may do this if we really miss the functionality and desire a £250 solution with a £2 monthly connection fee. We shall see.
So Nissan maybe not evil. But certainly not being honest and transparent.
Nah, Nissan is at least kinda evil. Probably more than kind of.
I tend to agree. Used to be a front runner in EV. Now very much an after thought. All happened because Zero emission EV vehicles were the master plan of their CEO Carlos Ghosn who was either framed or actually did commit mass financial fraud depending who you believe.
Let's not forget the whole Nissan.com saga either.
Ah yes. Lay claim to someone’s domain even though they had the company name first and you were sloppy. But you are big and think you can just bully your way through life.
soon to be shut down in the UK,
In 5+ years. Seems a bit premature.
Maybe not evil but not exactly good either. It's a computer in a car, they could offer the owners to buy a replacement part that works on (n+1)G.
And make it connect with an RJ-45 so you can swap out for a connection device for your own carrier instead of some stupid proprietary interface.
True, but maybe not physically possible. I doubt that the 2G module is a separate piece of hardware
I guarantee it's a separate piece of hardware. The leaf is sold all over the world and needs different hardware to work on all the different radio frequencies. There would be at least four or five different cell radio modules for the leaf.
Well, I said maybe is not physically possible, not that this is the cause.
But still, even being a separate piece of hardware does not make automatically possible to change it with a newer one.
Modularity costs money and they'd rather you pay for a whole new car, especially modern smart cars that have subscriptions to use hardware in the car you paid for (e.g. heated seats).
What you say about the subscription model is true, but I don't think this is the case. They simply went with the network that at the time had the biggest area covered, which would probably was 2G. (and it seems that they also used more recent modems in later models)
They simply, correctly, decide that having the widest area possible covered now is better than to have to maybe shutdown some services at a not yet known future time.
I don't know what you mean.
I think we already shut down most of the 2G and 3G in the USA, so those would already be offline here. It happened to my (gas) car already that was using the 3g network for its OnStar type service. But I had already disconnected it myself so it didn't matter
I had one of the first OnStar versions that used a 3-watt analog cell connection (this was when cellphones were 0.6w on the high side). Damn thing had coverage in the middle of the west Texas desert when my cell phone couldn’t even find a tower for miles.
3G still exists specifically for stuff like this (though more for remote monitoring devices, since this is a consumer device requiring a consumer account, it doesn't work).
It's just that as a consumer, you can't buy into 3G - there's no way to get service on 3G.
One car in my family is 3G only, and reports a cell connection everywhere we go (it just can't use it).
The oil/gas/pipeline (water) sector uses 3G monitoring devices all over the place.
Cars needing internet for functionality. What a great idea.
I mean, how are you supposed to accurately measure off peak times, and not sudden start charging millions of EVs all at once without some sort of connection?
Through the WiFi-equipped EVSE. Or heck, give the car WiFi. Pretty much everyone has WiFi these days, and it's not going anywhere anytime soon.
Is that even a feature that exists? For home charging you can do it whenever you want without internet, and for paid chargers they'll have their own Internet connection anyway.
Yes. That’s specifically one of the features that doesn’t won’t once support is dropped.
Usually if you buy a really fancy charger it can do it in the charger side of things, but I’m not sure if that’s trickled down to low end chargers. Also as an end game for renewable energy charging can happen when there’s excess power available, and stop charging when there’s a deficit.
You don't need Internet to put charging on an hourly schedule. I've never heard of any EVs doing actual smart communicating with power stations to distribute load, it's all manual and up to the car owner to charge during off-peak hours.
Please direct me to any EVs that actually do this though, since it sounds nice.
Please direct me to any EVs that actually do this
The Nissan Leaf "actually does this" (though in the UK, it will stop working unless you have a recent model). Obviously it only works if your power company supports it.
It's relatively common around the world and often has nothing to do with saving money. It's often about protecting the energy grid. For example in my city the grid can remotely switch off hot water heaters when they are struggling with demand. And at work we have red power points on the wall that have a higher grid priority - the entire city could have a blackout but those power points should still have power. Not because we have a UPS but because the grid will not cut power to that circuit unless there's a catastrophic safety risk (e.g. the power line fell over and pedestrians are walking all over it - they wouldn't send power then).
Sometimes that works by cutting delivery but increasingly often it's done at the consumption side. The switchboard on the outside of my house has a cellular radio connection to the energy provider so they can do these things.
It's also possible to roll your own off peak system - if you have solar panels on your roof for example you might only charge when your panels are producing power. And you can do that from your EV charger, meaning it will work with any EV.
You could easily make it modular, that would've cost a dollar more, so that won't happen.
I hope when I next buy a car someone can't later decide I'm not allowed to use my windscreen wipers, or the seat position controls or whatever.
I honestly had been hearing great things about the Leaf as an affordable electric and was seriously considering a used one as my next car when I am going to be ready financially around august.
Personally being an owner I wouldn’t buy one, there are plenty of other electrics that are great. I did buy a newer version and sold it very quickly to buy a better car.
Don’t get me wrong I love my leaf and it has done 65k miles and is still going strong even at 11 years old, but they are really lagging behind in tech compared to others. It’s like they got to 2015 and just stopping developing. They use a rapid charger that is fast disappearing in the UK (chademo) so long journeys or a quick top up are getting harder. If you want a cheap car to do 40-60 miles max a day for commuting then they are a great deal and cheap to own and run. 2 pence a mile for home charging at night. But for more than that maybe spend a little more or look at a Zoe or something else.
Their newer versions are expensive in comparison to competitors and to still be using the exact system as the 2012 models but with new body covering is just a bit sad. They were a front runner that just never kept developing.
It's because of the 2G networks being shut down. And this isn't specific to Leafs, it's all cars that used 2G for their data connection. This already has taken place in other countries, and I imagine Nissan no longer wants to support two versions of the app.
It’s the latter. The 2G network will continue for a long time to come. The shame is that even a late 2018 model still uses that old app too and uses 3G cellular. So they will lose their primary network service and fall back into the 2G network mode before the pre 2016 models lose their 2G connectivity.
The 2G network will continue for a long time to come
It's already gone in North America. China is aiming for 2025 (or already gone, depending on which Google result I click), and and it was gone in Japan a long time ago. Nissan sells more cars in each of those three markets alone than all of Europe. And 2G is already gone in many European countries. It makes no sense for them to keep it just for the UK market.
Considering the affected models, this is absolutely ludicrous. Those vehicles already suffer from diminished battery capacities, with some being around the 50% mark at this point, so to further corrode owner experience is ridiculous. Early adopters paved the way for the current spate of EVs so punishing them for this is outrageous. The article states 2G networks will remain live for almost another 6 years. Giving that reason as the cause of the loss of functionality is so disingenuous it is beyond belief. What a way to inspire confidence in your company...
This is the life of all early adopters. Being an early adopter you should know that end of life will come soon, and be painful, because they haven’t figured out how to end this nicely.
This is why I stick with old used cars, what it says on the tin is what I get and that won't change.
Right?
Though I'm sure if they can figure out someway to force subscription bullshit in there, they will.
Fortunately it sounds like this doesn't actually affect any of the car's functions, just it's ability to interface with an app
With benefits (cheap, functional, easy to buy and get fixed anywhere) of big centralized production come, as people not warned of this by common wisdom can now see, some inconveniences.
I think it's normal.
Maybe in 20 years or so when everybody gets conscious and afraid of such dynamics, most things will be dumb, inefficient, expensive, but also more predictable and relevant for longer.
When I was a kid, it seemed cool to me that you can buy cheap things made in China from plastic. I thought the future is that everything will be cheap and easy to get, even if bad and made from plastic - the most important thing is, it's there.
Now the feeling is the opposite, well, I change (20 years older and no better), humanity also changes.
When I was a kid, it seemed cool to me that you can buy cheap things made in China
....
Now the feeling is the opposite,
With age comes wisdom
Older cars are far more unsafe though, I witnessed a near head on accident just the other day and went to help the occupants so I got to see it up close
Both vehicles were about the same amount of fucked up, except one was older. I'd peg it as a 2000-2005. The occupants of the older one were pretty messed up injury wise, though they did survive. It had standard airbags.
The other vehicle, I'd peg around mid to late 2010's, the occupants walked away without a scratch, and their vehicle interior looked like a freaking bounce house
Yea, I'll risk some manufacturer taking away my heated seats in exchange for the higher vehicle safety of a newer vehicle
That's a variable among brands and models of cars, largely.
If the older car had been a different model, it would be a different outcome.
My 2006 car has airbags all over the place, and they're of the variable-deployment variety... Becuase it's a brand/model that made their cars this way.
Using "less safe" as a metric is kind of silly at this point. The safety of vehicles since the 90's is just unbelievable. I witnessed a head-on impact in about 1994, with one car that had airbags (so it was newer at the time, hut using airbags of that era, before variable-deployments tech). That driver walked away too - the car was clearly totalled.
It really depends on the scenario. As a driver, you are the single greatest influence of safety in a car.
As someone who's been driving for 40 years, I've had exactly 2 accidents - both on my motorcycle, from other drivers not seeing me. So there's the odds of being in an accident to consider too. And both of those situations I consider avoidable by me.
None of my cars have been in accidents - I've avoided quite a few.
They really should make a easy path to update the 2g modem module to a 5g, but you know... Sales. Next thing you know car manufactures will be sunsetting support for an entire car because they no longer support updates to people with an out of date phone. So lazy and short sighted.
Does it vibrate when you plug it in tho
Key features about to make like that license plate and leaf.
