Video game news oriented community. No NanoUFO is not a bot :)
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He's not wrong, but blandness is king in the AAA space.
It's taking over everything that corporations touch. Despite all their attempts to hide and distract from their problems, they only keep mounting because they refuse to accept the fundamental truth that it is literally impossible to strictly control the entire population the way that their systems are designed to work. Computer technology and the Internet have ironically actually solved our problems, not by controlling what people do, but rather by accelerating the enshitification process to a pace where their bullshit becomes abundantly obvious to everyone.
He's not wrong. Old school Nintendo and super Nintendo and Sega Genesis songs gets stuck in my head all the time. Same can't be said of modern-day AAA games.
Yeah, take Jeremy Soule, for example. He's talented, experienced, and composing all of these broad symphonic soundtracks for Elder Scrolls, Skyrim, and Harry Potter games.
But, what's the soundtrack of his that sticks out in my mind? Secret of Evermore. Underrated as fuck soundtrack for an underrated as fuck game. Back when he was forced to compose for a game with limited hardware and instrumentation, where he had to use distinct melodies to achieve a sound that sticks in everybody's minds.
Every Frame a Painting did a good video on this subject, as it pertains to the Marvel movies.
I think music has a very important place in games, and the thing about music in The Elder Scrolls is that it's always been an afterthought.
I mean, sure, Jeremy Soule composed some great tracks (though really, they were always a bit repetitive, and it only got worse since Oblivion). But no effort was made at all to get them to fit the game.
Of course it's not an easy task with the open-world design. But already in Morrowind, after a while the soundtrack was getting on my nerves. It was always there, with that overwhelming orchestration blaring when nothing much happened in game, or that melancholic theme starting in the middle of a gruesome underground dungeon. Everywhere sounds the same, until one enemy spots you and then it abruptly stops for another overused track. No matter if it's a greater Daedra or a freaking mudcrab.
That theme, you know the one because it's become the Elder Scrolls theme, from Morrowind's title screen to Oblivion's to The DragonBorn Comes, I used to like it. Except after a few dozen hours being used without rhyme or reason in Morrowind, I already couldn't stand it anymore.
Yeah, games used to have bitchin soundtracks. I remember when we started putting in licensed music into it's racing games with it's "EA games trax". It was terrible. I liked the bespoke music they used to put in need for speed games, or even the older burnout games.
I get what he's saying. Game music used to have a much bigger "job" in fleshing out the world that the game presented to you. I remember for example songs like Final Fantasy VII's Gold Saucer, Chrono Cross' Termina (Another World) that set the tone of the place you're visiting: busy, active, crowded and festive. If you take the music out, you have a beautiful yet static, almost frozen landscape - it comes alive with the music. Nowadays the visuals can be so detailed, the worlds so big and busy that the music seems to be an afterthought: it's just ambient music for the already immersive world of the game. And I believe that has lead to a lot of composers settling for just that: ambient music.
I think on Twitter I once messaged Gareth Coker, the composer for Ori and the Blind Forest, about how beautiful the music on that game is and how there's a big emphasis on melodies. He replied that the studio specifically pushed for melody-heavy songs, rather than just ambient music that only complements the action. That makes a huge difference.
This is a big reason why the new Zelda games just do nothing for me. Without Koji Kondo they’re just so… devoid of life and personality.
Conversely, the goofy coop shooter Helldivers 2 elevates the feeling you get playing the game with its over the top hero music.
Part of the reason I enjoy games is for the soundtracks. Modern games that come to mind are Persona 5 and Nier Automata which has do much memorable music. The soundtrack creates an Identity. So many games feel like the sound team doesn't care if I play my own music instead.
I would say that a lot of this has to do with survivor bias. Most of the shitty soundtracks were forgotten and buried. Only the really good ones had staying power. So it is easy to convince yourself that the past was so much better because you remember the good and a lot less of the absolute trash that existed back then and compare that cherry picked past to today's mix of good and bad.
Sea of Stars was such a refreshing game. From the music, to the backgrounds, to the combat, it was like a love letter to 90's RPGs. You only get that level of quality and love from indie games these days. Games from large companies just don't have any soul anymore.
They literally can't afford to.
There's a huge budget bloat, which means having to play ever safer to maximize your audience.
The reality is that only small games can afford to be gambles and actually have an identity and a soul.
Big budget games need to be works of incredible craftsmanship like the Arkham games to maintain a soul while being unimpeachable in execution, and you can't just throw money at the skill problem.
You can however throw money at 10387 consulting firms to make sure you're aiming for maximum palatability, and inevitably make homogenised pap for babies.
For instance: it's really telling when even a game that should have been edgy as fuck like Suicide Squad had to lionize Wonder Woman, and only Wonder Woman, because apparently you can't humiliate her and unceremoniously murder her alongside every other beloved Justice League member.
Based. I love his music btw from FF4 to FF9 he's one of my favs with Lotus Juice and Yoko Shimomura and I agree with him 100%. Movie music is boring as shit and his music is way way better
I mean fuck, movie music doesn't have to be boring as shit either, but it sure is in a bad state these days.
A lot of that is audio balancing too tho
Yeah, I mean those ones end up just getting lost in the noise with no completely discernable tracks and melodies. There are a few stellar movie soundtracks that break that mould line the blade runners but that's not what some games are trying to emulate.
Flashbacks of how lit the Queen of the Damned soundtrack was.
Really depends. Orchestral pieces can fit certain games, or certain parts of a game. A set soundtrack with a few variations for changes of pace can work if it's a good fit for the game in general.
If it's a constant wall of music that's not really well integrated, sure it can be a bit annoying, even if the music itself would be very good in isolation.
But on the contrary some games have adaptive music, and interestingly it's a bit more like John Williams' view on movie soundtracks : it's made to adapt to what's happening in real time. When it's done right it's everything but boring.
But on the contrary some games have adaptive music, and interestingly it’s a bit more like John Williams’ view on movie soundtracks : it’s made to adapt to what’s happening in real time. When it’s done right it’s everything but boring.
Elite: Dangerous does this extremely well (IMO it has some of the best sound designs out there, not only music but everything else, too, including the dynamic range). The music is never this generic bombastic horn sections, and it's different in different environments and situations, always somberly haunting at the edge of consciousness and enhancing, not overpowering, the gameplay.
What's that? Sorry friend, I couldn't hear you over An der schönen blauen Donau playing while the AI auto docks the ship.
Completely agree. A movie style soundtrack has it's place if used correctly.
Yeah hard disagree with Nobuo on this one. I remember firing up Halo CE for the first time and being blown away by what I was hearing throughout the game, and to this day I can see a screenshot of that game and my brain immediately starts rocking out to that level's sound track.
It can be utilized poorly for sure, but a videogame with a cinematic sound track done right goes straight to my favorites.
In my experience lots of games go for this "generic movie-like" style, which sounds high production value, but where the composition is just unmemorable filler that says nothing.
Halo was great in this regard, so I don't think that's what he's going for here. Hell, I'm instantly getting Halo ost playing in my head while writing this.
Halo’s opening theme on the OG Xbox is so iconic I guarantee you if you did the chants in public several random dudes (and even a few women) will join you. Iconic
Thank you!
Although there’s exceptions. I’m playing FF16 right now and the only piece of music I can play in my mind is the beginning of the "special-er“ battle music that’s that final fantasy battle music but reimagined on a big violin - meanwhile I can play the whole vs. Möbius track of XC3
I kind of agree that 16 isn't my favorite even though it certainly had some moments. Soken's FF14 OST is amazing though.
Hell, movie like soundtracks in movies are getting boring. One of the reasons I saw dune in theaters was because I was expecting an awesome soundtrack that used a diverse array of instruments and sounds, not just generic western orchestra
It's not all bad; as far as I'm concerned Nier Automata had one of the greatest and most compelling soundtracks of all time. I still listen to it on a regular basis and am floored every single time.
Yeah but that music is definitely not movie like. It's very unique.
Absolutely. Final Fantasy 6 is so enjoyable, with the music being a big part.
Ironic that he basically kick-started the trend he criticizes with One Winged Angel, but maybe that's why it gets to him.
DOOM. Mick Gordon. Shame what they did to him though.
This is going to be a bit of a conservative opinion, but hear me out because i respect both sides of the conversation!
I think the 2016 doom ost sucks. The way he made is original and kudos to him for doing it that way, but i found the end result boring.
I like my metal, but not death metal. And this is what it sounded like to me. The same note over and over and no melody.
That said : the following youtube meme is exactly what this conversation is about and both sides are a-ok!
Edit : any way i can embed a video in lemmy?
Music is integral to build the game's overall atmosphere. At least indie studios still get it: Look at Cuphead, Hollow Knight, Hades, Vampire Survivors, etc.
He’s right! Video game music has been absolutely mental since the start, whether Japanese arcade machines, the early 90s German demo scene, JRPGs, etc etc. Just getting a session orchestra in to riff on Holst and Wagner is boring.
Just getting a session orchestra in to riff on Holst and Wagner is boring.
Most often it's not even a real orchestra, but Vienna Symphonic Library.
He's not wrong, Sony is a bit guilty of this; but Elden Ring soundtrack is goated.
I still listen to the FF8 soundtrack daily. It's absolutely beautiful! Most games these days have very forgettable music. I actually can't remember most of it.
I think hardware limitations on old hardware is one of the reasons why music in old games was interesting.
Uematsu is hands down my favorite video game composer ever. He's done so many fun and interesting soundtracks. His tracks have style, they're catchy, they're emotional, they're memorable, they speak. FF9 or 8 were his best.
Modern movie music is overly emotional and uninteresting too.
The more art you put into a triple A the more risk you introduce that it'll fall flat. And with the incredible budgets on triple A's nowadays, execs just aren't tolerant of risk.