Cataphract

Everyone's fleshed out a lot of the discussions so I'll just bullet point my opinion to try to better explain the discourse I'm seeing on here

• I view "Lemmy" like it's a Community Center with group discussions, Community gatherings, and/or lectures with public comments. If you're in the crowd "Booing" (downvoting) without standing up and making your position clear, you're not adding anything to the discussion.

• Downvote/Upvote is not like "Booth Voting" at all. You have ONE vote in a democracy, that's the core principle. You don't vote Yes for a candidate then vote No for another. You don't see a ticker above the booth tallying everyone's vote that was before you (voter manipulation, why hidden scores became a thing).

• I think this would go over a lot better if mods had the choice of how to present the votes. Opt in or out of showing voters, opt in or out of showing scores or eliminating downvotes or even upvotes if you want. Give the power to the community and create useful tools for mods to try out.

You keep getting heated and bringing up other things that aren't equated trying to make some type of metaphor and it's not connecting for me so I apologize if you're getting frustrated. I don't see the social-score and "you have nothing to hide" being a valid argument that pertains to this discussion and just fear mongering distracting from a simple forum mechanic and a system of interacting with it.

I think the upvote/downvote system is abused by the general user by default when it comes to anonymity and many more are tempted as time progresses. When you're in a crowd you don't boo or cheer anonymously, it's an open public space where people see your actions. More accountability to the people interacting with a system seems like a positive to me.

In regards to the security/protection thing, others have already chimed in and hopefully you understand the data is already tracked and available to those who have a desire for it. My relevant parts where I talked about it before

You are not private or anonymous on here, if your actions on this platform put you in danger than do not continue to interact thinking it’s completely safe! These things can already be seen, this discussion is about making it show up in every UI by default instead.

Again, please stop saying this removes protections for trans/gay. That information is already public and you're making it seem like they are currently safe versus what this change would do to them. The blocking scenario is what happens now, you just wouldn't know they made a new account unless you're actually able to see it. IDK why you brought video games into this, more often it's for cheats as trolls and harassment get left unchecked on a lot of platforms. If votes don't matter now why not change it to a form where they do matter?

If I disagree with something I'll usually comment or upvote someone who has the same sentiment. I try my best not to petty downvote anything and I don't understand why you're stating you have to declare why you upvote, it's something you find as a contribution, already defined for an intended purpose. This doesn't take away any meaningful engagement besides mass voting in your scenario, people will still comment who have something to say. I think we just see two different sides of the aisle lol, ty for the discussion btw.

Gah, way to take it to extreme. You are not private or anonymous on here, if your actions on this platform put you in danger than do not continue to interact thinking it's completely safe! These things can already be seen, this discussion is about making it show up in every UI by default instead.

If someone is going through your history and downvoting in a harassing way, just block them. They're not there for discussion and the problem is solved. Without seeing a repeat offender you'll never know and the harassment can continue. I see discussions being more open honestly, you actually have to take a second to think about your downvote instead of just gut reacting it.

I agree it would lead to less interaction, but the interaction lost would only be downvotes being used as a disagree button. No one is going to get harassed for downvoting a bot posting an ad or someone just completely off-topic, that which the downvote is suppose to be used for. In your scenario you point out that the comments you seek out have so many upvotes-downvotes because it's controversial, not that it doesn't add to the discussion.

I saw some other's commenting about "private ballot boxes" but I think that's a false equivalency. You Vote in a democracy on policy and representation, not discourse. You're basically saying your upvote/downvote is being used to police conversation and who you think best represents you.

I've been looking for someone to touch on this. I didn't like youtube getting rid of the downvotes but....what did it change? The only incidents I can think of is when there's vote bombing on a really bad video. Lemmynsfw got rid of downvotes and they're better for it. The only exception I can think of is a technical video that is just factually wrong but then there's always a comment highlighting that with upvotes. Seems like the only thing we lost was sensational downvoting and the thrill of jumping on a like-minded group dislike.

I thought the whole argument was the internet was an echo chamber because of it being anonymous. Look at right-wing groups that employ masks where they can hide their true intentions behind "just being normal citizens". It's the groups like "Moms for Liberty" that are outed for their corruption because they have to use a public face during council meetings and such where you can't be anonymous.

I'm having trouble seeing how downvotes being public would lead to more harassment. You would have to make sure you're comfortable with putting your opinion forward just like with commenting. If there's someone going around downvoting someone relentlessly it will be brought to light for all to see, not hidden like it is now. That would encourage more people to speak up because their detractors would have to do so publicly and without explanation they seem like they're not bringing anything to the table in the discussion (returning downvotes to their true intention in the process).

edit' format, grammar

Imagine my surprise to see you in here talking about LW centralization isn't good. You came onto a support question (link) for a community I had started with one of my concerns being the LW centralization and you quickly told me to abandon my community. Extremely weird considering you run a generic fantasy community which already exists in many places so felt a little kettle/pot.

I could also see them banning outside links for patreon etc if they're trying to take over that space and get a cut. Huh, guess they're not happy just getting money from user content, they might feel like they deserve part of the creator's profits as well.