Dasus

I find it far less disturbing.

Yeah looking at the history it's very problematic, but England has always retained a some sense of.. morality. Fuck monarchy and all, but I find it very challenging to imagine the UK going as insane as the US is currently.

Like when you read shit like this, I know who I favour historically:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bamber_Bridge

OK yeah I'll admit cleaning up after shitheads does cost, and probably a fair amount because of how famous those places are. (So it's very much non-locals most of the time, I'd wager.)

I meant "profit" in the sense of that profit being the taxation. As in, people walking around the park don't actually cost anything to anyone, so it is profit when you charge people to walk around, but the people wouldn't be able to come there in the first place were there not the infrastructure which is upheld by said profit.

Oh. I think for us the first three would be hiking and the last four would just be walking.

But yeah, there's definitely a difference of terminology, seeing as there's two completely different languages. But I do take your point.

I don't know about any trails that have bike paths leading up to them though. I mean, unless you count a road as a bike path. It's just very much more organic here, you've made it into a whole thing that can be used for profit, it seems like. The infrastructure to ours, like duckboards and whatnot are paid for by taxes, but our taxation policies are quite different so we won't get into that, lol.

It's genuinely hard to imagine how large America is.

And Finland isn't one of the tiny Central-European countries.

Driving from Fresno to Yellowstone is pretty much the distance it is to drive from where I live (Southern end of Finland) to the Northern end of Finland.

But yeah at the Northern end in Lapland it starts getting more like that, only a few roads going to the larger national parks. Here in the South you can just go around anything really, there's backroads and footpaths everywhere. Like no matter how deep in the woods I go, I'd feel awkward taking a shit, since there's always some dogwalkers to be met.

This makes me want to go hiking up North.

Genuine curiosity being read as "smug and mocking" is a bit troublesome I feel. I've just not traveled a lot. I know things, but I haven't been there personally, and reading about Yellowstone, it doesn't exactly highlight that some company controls access to it, more or less.

Thank you for the info on that though, seems horrible, and is exactly the type of behaviour our laws exist to prevent.

So by "limited access by road" you mean that "yes, there is a booth on every road leading there"?

So some company basically owns the rights to do that..? Have booths and whatnot on every road leading there?

It's just... weird for me, is all.

I just don't understand how you can "fee" Yellowstone or the Grand Canyon. Those places are huge.

You have a booth on every road?

I don't believe there's a single place like that in Finland, what with our everymans rights

Everyman's rights are the right of every person to use nature regardless of who owns or controls the land. The use of nature within the limits set under the everyman's rights therefore does not require the permission of the landowner and using the rights does not cost anything.

In Finland there is no trespassing on private property. Well, not if it's not gated or your yard or something. And you can't gate large pieces of land like that, so...

I understand that the nature is very different, for instance we have no mountains. So for me, I'm just thinking "just use another road", but some places just have one road going there, I guess. Here, I'll show my point:

I've highlighted the parks in yellow. Kansallispuisto = national park, luonnonpuisto = "nature park" (which sounds silly, I hear it). My point is that the trails in those areas start from a few places, and going to the national park, there's several parkin places you can go to, and you can get to the areas from so many different places. And this isn't a national park that requires any park rangers. I don't even know if we have any, but if we do, they're in the national parks which are up North in Lapland. This is a very small one. Just a big marsh with a lake in the center, essentially.

So you couldn't really set up a gatehouse or a booth anywhere there.

I get the point about it being a cheap activity in general, but aside from parking, who do pay the money to? Is there like a ticket-booth at the start of some trail which you couldn't reasonably get to walking from other places?

Hikes being extremely cheap and only needing to pay parking, usually.

Laughs in Finnish everymans rights.

You have to pay for hiking? Or you hike on trails where the only access is from a parking area that you have to pay for?

Seems ridiculous to me.