Feyd

1. Floating point math is deterministic.
2. Systems don't have to be programmed with race conditions. That is not a fundamental aspect of an LLM, but a design decision.
3. Systems don't have to be programmed to tie break with random methods. That is not a fundamental aspect of an LLM, but a design decision.

This is not hard stuff to understand, if you understand computing.

You can, at that will cause the same output on the same input if there is no variation in floating point rounding errors. (True if the same code is running but easy when optimizing to hit a round up/down and if the tokens are very close the output will diverge)

There are more aspects to the randomness such as race conditions and intentionally nondeterministic tiebreaking when tokens have the same probability, apparently.

I actually think LLMs are ill suited for the vast majority of things people are currently using them for, and there are obviously the ethical problems with data centers bringing new fossil fuel power sources online, but the technology is interesting in and of itself

I said I was wrong in that my statement was overly broad and not applicable to the systems most people are using in my initial response to you, then clarified that it is not an intrinsic character of the technology at large but that the implementations that are most used have it.

You apparently think that conversations are a battle with winners and losers so the fact you were right that the biggest systems are nondeterministic for reasons outside of temperature configuration means it doesn't matter why, doesn't matter that those factors don't have to apply to every inference system, and doesn't matter that you have no idea what determinism means.

In any case talking to you seems like a waste of time, so enjoy your sad victory lap while I block you so I don't make the mistake of engaging you assuming you're an earnest interlocutor in the future.

Deterministic systems are always predictable, even if you never ran the system. Can you determine the output of an LLM with zero temperature without ever having ran it?

You don't have to understand a deterministic system for it to be deterministic. You are making that up.

And even disregarding the above, no, they are still NOT deterministic systems

I conceded that setting temperature to 0 for an arbitrary system (including all the remote ones most people are using) does not mean it is deterministic after reading about other factors that influence inference in these systems. That does not mean there are not deterministic implementations of LLM inference, and repeating yourself with NO additional information and using CAPS does NOT make you more CORRECT lol.

You also have to run the model with the input to determine what the output will be, no way to determine it BEFORE running. With a deterministic system, if you know the code you can predict the output with 100% accuracy without ever running it.

This is not the definition of determinism. You are adding qualifications.

I did look it up and I see now there are other factors that aren't under your control if you're using a remote system, so I'll amend my statement to say that you can have deterministic inference systems, but the big ones most people use cannot be configured to be by the user.

You can actually set it up to give the same outputs given the same inputs (temperature = 0). The variability is on purpose

I like fighting games and I also think mortal kombat should be a different genre

Just fucking stop using it? Wtf? Tell you boss to pound sand! They're going to blame you when it goes south anyway so you might as well stay honest.

You're agreeing with the comment you replied to. Why the fuck are you trying to be so smug???

I was not disparaging homemaking. Now, many people have to scrape together that labor AND do a paid job, which is obviously a degradation in quality of life.

RE: rich country poor country - we have enough labor globally to make everyone happy and healthy globally. That quality of life is so different in different places is another symptom of the global system of economic serfdom.

There is still a substantial amount of working age people in that scenario. They just need to be allocated to jobs that matter instead of made up bullshit like for instance the vast majority of medical insurance employees. We have enough labor available that we could live in a straight up utopia but instead much of it is oriented to perpetuating economic serfdom.

Think about it... We used to have a large proportion of people running households instead of working for money, but now we both have more automaton than ever and a higher percentage of people in the labor market, and we don't even work fewer hours.

Society doesn't have to work that way.