LadyAutumn

Fascist speech is not hard to point out. Advocating for the removal of the human rights of minority groups should result in legal punishment. Advocating for violence against minorities should result in legal punishment.

No one is born a Nazi. You should not be able to exist in society as a Nazi. You should face legal action for being a Nazi. We hung people at Nuremberg over this. We have already long since had established definitions of what inciting genocide is, of what spreading fascism is.

Okay, but are Jewish people supposed to just accept that you're walking around calling for the mass murder of their communities?

Weimar Germany was a society that was governed on this principle of a "marketplace of ideas" where "unacceptable evil beliefs will naturally be rejected", so is the modern united states. You can see two pretty clear examples of how this does not work and just allows fascists to promote their view points.

Say in you're example you're not just some guy on the street corner. Say you're a media executive. Say you're a politician. Say you're a billionaire. Is it still permissible? Say you make a new political party called the "kill all the jews" party, and you make friends with all the major media executives to promote your views non-stop all day every day on the air. Is it still permissible? Say you buy out social media websites, and make it against the TOS for those websites to say anything denouncing of the "kill all the jews" party. Then you flood those websites with indoctrination material and fabricated news stories. Is it still permissible?

Hate speech can and should be faced with legal prosecution. You should face legal repercussions for calling for all Jewish people to be murdered. Freedom of speech should not protect violent bigotry. The goal of government should be to provide the greatest quality of life for all. That is incompatible with allowing people to spread violent hate speech and indotrinate others into violent bigotry. This mistake has been made time and again. Fascists are the ones who fight the absolute hardest for "freedom to say nazi shit". Because of course they want it to be legal for them to do that, they're nazis. Protecting them from legal consequences for being Nazis literally only benefits Nazis.

I think it's great that youre willing to engage with content that challenges you. I think that you should think about some of the stuff you said today. What if I was a kid, what if children read your comments. What you said was very damaging and made others feel unsafe. Not just like an insult but actually like the threat of insitutional violence against people for who they are. That's really serious. You shouldn't want to make people afraid that they will be harmed because of who they are.

We're not going to see eye to eye because you won't consider my perspective. You've already decided that you're right and that I'm wrong before the conversation even starts. You're not open to the idea that maybe you aren't right about this. I'd ask you to consider that. Just open yourself to that one thing, that one possibility that maybe you're wrong about this. Consider that maybe you haven't thought of every possible challenge to your view of gender. I am absolutely willing to consider your perspective, and I feel I more than have throughout this conversation. Afford me the same dignity and treat my ideas as legitimate points worth considering. If you're definitely right and I'm definitely wrong, then considering my arguments shouldn't matter, right? Because if I'm wrong anyway, then my arguments shouldn't change that.

I don't think you're really a bad person. You said some shock value troll comments at the start of all this but then actually spent like 2 hours of your time talking with me. The good thing to do, the morally right thing to do, when faced with information that challenges our worldview, is to consider whether we are right or not.

Okay, I mean you haven't really respected my rights to be "called a chick" in this conversation but I'm glad you're willing to respect my right to be identified with whatever terminology I feel best describes me.

What I'm saying I am is a woman, a transgender one who was assigned male at birth and transitioned as a young adult. I'm not claiming to be anything else.

I can't tell what you're responding to here. Are you saying you know how I look? I never said I was pretty, nor did I say that you definitely wouldn't be able to tell i was trans. I said that actually speaking with and interacting with me I feel you'd have a hard time conceiving of me as a man. I do not fall in line with western masculinity in really any way. I'm also very confident in my identity. You calling me a man doesn't make me feel uncomfortable, just disrespected.

I also have ADHD. No argumentative points to that. I just thought I'd point that out.

As I said in my other comment, nothing, as I have had gender reassignment surgery. And even if I hadn't it wouldn't matter. My gender is not determined by my hormones.

I don't dispute the fact, I pointed out that I don't believe you. It's fine if that's true though, because i then shared my own experience of being mistaken for a girl many times as a child and teenager. I was assigned male at birth, so at the time saw myself as a boy and I think you'd agree at the time that I was. I still was called a girl all the time. When I corrected people, they accepted the correction.

I stated a lot more about how gender isn't biologically determined in the above. If you want to challenge individual points I've made, I'd like it if you could actually respond to those points. Instead of just blindly state that you're right despite all the challenges I've made that you haven't responded to.

I highly doubt you would agree that I'm a man if we met. Even if you could tell I was trans id still be willing to bet you wouldn't be able to internally conceive of me as a man. I am very conventionally feminine and dress and present myself in a way that is very in line with how other women my age dress and present.

I have had reassignment surgery, so nothing would happen if the pills were taken away. My body does not produce any more testosterone than a cisgender woman's does. Even if I hadnt had reassignment surgery, biology still isn't how we determine gender. My gender wouldn't change in the absence of medication.

You should respond more to what I said there. I added more at the end. Actually try and respond to what I'm saying. If your position is defensible and you are competent at defending it then prove it.

We already established that gender is not determined by biology. We determined that a dozen times over at this point. You assign gender based on what you see, and it's up to people to correct you if you got it wrong. This works fine when the person is cisgender, but you have decided is unacceptable when they're trans.

In what way are you "a dude or a girl at birth" if "dude or girl" is something people decide by how you look and not by your biology? And how do you explain masculinity or femininity being culturally relative? Men hold hands and kiss each other on the cheeks in some cultures. Those expressions of affection are masculine, as are skirts and well manicured nails in other cultures. There are some culture where being thin and vain are considered masculine. And some cultures where being stocky and blunt are considered feminine.

Femininity and masculinity are 2 words that essentially mean "of men and women". It's just a roundabout way of referring to genders. A feminine man is gender non-conforming, their femininity goes against their assigned gender. They are presumed to be masculine because of their assigned gender, and therefore discouraged from being feminine. Allowing people to self determine their gender directly liberates them from this process.

If you're willing to allow someone like me to exist, someone with a vagina and estrogen and breasts who was nonetheless assigned male at birth, what functionally is preventing you from respecting my identity as a woman? Why is that unacceptable to you? What is being damaged by acknowledging my gender? Language isn't sacred, and I feel like I've more than pointed out already that the word woman is not determined by someone's biology. So what is the reason why you insist that society affirm and uphold the right of other people to tell me what gender I am? If it's not biology and it is restrictive, literally giving me rules for who I am and who I'm allowed to be and how people must treat me, like it's demonstrably severely damaging to my mental well-being, then why is it necessary for assigned gender to still be upheld? Why is it okay for you to continue to assert that about me? You disrespect me and my experiences when you continue to call me a man.

You also say that you're glad I made myself happy, but earlier said "9 more days ❤️". A clear attempt to make me feel threatened and unsafe because of political persecution at the hands of the upcoming change in presidency. If you're actually glad I myself happy, if it actually matters to you that I am healthy and have good quality of life, why do you promote support and endorse misinformation that is a direct threat to my safety? Why do you insist that society should take actions that would directly harm me? How can my well-being matter to you if in the same breath you disrespect my dignity as a person?

It's your responsibility to correct someone if they misgender you. It's their responsibility to accept the correction and respect your identity after they have been corrected.