I want as few cars as possible, mixed zoning, and walkable cities
agreed.
Robot cars are a step in the wrong direction.
You've made no argument as to why, or why the alternative of human drivers killing millions is better?
masterspace
joined 1 year ago
That’s probably all news to you,
No, I have youtube as well, it doesn't make you a genius.
presumably because the techbro scene isn’t interested in things actually moving forward, what you’re interested in is jerking off to gadgetry, not public transport.
Lol. I'm interested in reducing our millions of road deaths in whatever way possible. You're interested in jerking yourself off in the fuck cars subreddit cause it sounds simple and edgy and you're frustrated.
It’s not “I’m interested in public transport, therefore I like autonomous cars”, it’s “Autonomous cars are cool, let’s find ways to shoehorn them into everything”.
It's "let's not be dumbasses and trash autonomous cars on the off chance your public transit paradise doesn't materialize".
So, gain: Please tell me how you’re going to make it so that burger flippers can afford those autonomous cars within 20 years. Tech won’t solve that issue. Public transport circumvents it completely.
They literally can through a taxi service that splits the costs amongst users, called Waymo. Car shares also already exist. The cost of sensors and computers will also come down both through mass manufacturing and technological improvements (like solid state lidar).
Honestly, let's make a bet and check back in 20 years, does your public transit paradise exist or maybe just maybe, the actual political and infrastructure realities of the US mean that cars still exist?
You won’t recognise the city in 10 years, it’d totally transform, very much for the better.
Bruh, it takes ~10 years to plan and build a single major infrastructure project in America. Again, the timelines you're talking about are nonsensical. Yes, building out transit and reorienting communities like that is the ultimate solution, but the idea that that will happen so much and so extensively that we'll have no need for autonomous cars in even 20 years is absolutely absurd and detached from reality.
What's your point? That's self driving systems are incredibly cheap and worth it? An ROI of 2 years on first generation hardware is very good spot to be in.
In 2021 it cost Waymo ~$180k for a brand new Jaguar i-pace with all their sensors and computers outfitted. Given that 2021 i-paces started at $70k, we're looking at ~$100k for the sensors and computers necessary.
Elsewhere in the thread someone who knows the city well better than me (or probably you) said that it's an area known for mobile home encampments. Yes, that's homelessness
It was in Chinatown during a Chinese New Year's celebration. I'm done with this conversation. You seem to want to believe that the rest of the world will magically densify into Europe faster than we'll develop self driving cars that are safer than human drivers.
Good luck! I mean that earnestly, because it would be a better future, but I also don't mean it remotely earnestly because that's not how the world works and that's not going to happen. That's a problem that is solved on a generational timescale. Self driving cars is a couple decade timescale.
We're talking about a taxi service, not an individual's car. Waymo is not example of wealth inequality, unless the brush you use is as broad as "requires technology to run = tech bro devilry'.
Since their inception, Waymo vehicles have driven 5.3 million driverless miles in Phoenix, 1.8 million driverless miles in San Francisco, and a few thousand driverless miles in Los Angeles through the end of October 2023. And during all those miles, there were three crashes serious enough to cause injuries:
- In July, a Waymo in Tempe, Arizona, braked to avoid hitting a downed branch, leading to a three-car pileup. A Waymo passenger was not wearing a seatbelt (they were sitting on the buckled seatbelt instead) and sustained injuries that Waymo described as minor.
- In August, a Waymo at an intersection “began to proceed forward” but then “slowed to a stop” and was hit from behind by an SUV. The SUV left the scene without exchanging information, and a Waymo passenger reported minor injuries.
- In October, a Waymo vehicle in Chandler, Arizona, was traveling in the left lane when it detected another vehicle approaching from behind at high speed. The Waymo tried to accelerate to avoid a collision but got hit from behind. Again, there was an injury, but Waymo described it as minor.
The percentage of drivers who would be in prison with that record is precisely 0.
While I agree that data should be public, them not wanting every crash to be reported on publicly probably has something to do with the fact that mobs are burning their cars down at the present moment, even though they're statistically safer than normal drivers.
You mean why did homeless people trash an autonomous taxi?
Uh, you can watch the video, it wasn't homeless people.
So if you work at a farm, but are not a farmer, you can’t live there? You are legally required to have a 20km commute based on a law to preserve the integrity of farm life or something? What kind of bullshit is that.
Again we're not talking about people who work on farms. We're talking about people who work in farming communities in jobs that are necessary to support farmers. Most of them don't even work on a single farm but service multiple farms. Stop trying to act like you understand country life well enough to reshape it, you're just as arrogant as every European colonizer before you.
Lol, you so insistently want to believe that I'm a car loving tech bro that you're literally not reading anything I'm writing.
I'm pro public transit, I agree that it's more efficient and produces better cities and communities than ones built around cars, I tend to vote socialist, and don't own a car and have no love for them or what they've done to society, however, I'm just not delusional about how long it takes to a) built enough mass transit that people don't need cars and b) move everyone to live and work near that mass transit and c) to solve for every edge case like the elderly, people driving out to remote cottages, deliveries, the sick and elderly, getting around in inclement weather, etc.
Even if you had the public and political willpower to enact those changes (which you very very very clearly don't), it would still take longer to do all of that, by like an order of magnitude, then it will to improve self driving cars and make them widely available. Self driving cars we're talking like a decade, the kind of societal changes you're describing take a generation. You literally have to wait for every suburban stick in the mud to be willing to move out of their home or die before you can achieve your car-free dream.