this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024

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Sweden, Norway rethink plans for cashless societies over fears that fully digital payment systems would leave them vulnerable to Russian security threats (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 3 weeks ago by 0x815@feddit.org to c/technology@lemmy.world

156 comments fedilink hide all child comments

cross-posted from: https://feddit.org/post/4262252

A combination of good high-speed internet coverage, high digital literacy rates, large rural populations and fast-growing fintech industries had put the Nordic neighbours on a fast track to a future without cash.

[...]

But Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in 2022 and a subsequent rise in cross-border hybrid warfare and cyber-attacks blamed on pro-Russia groups have prompted a rethink.

[...]

The Swedish government has since completely overhauled its defence and preparedness strategy, joining Nato, starting a new form of national service and reactivating its psychological defence agency to combat disinformation from Russia and other adversaries. Norway has tightened controls on its previously porous border with Russia.

[...]

[Norway's] justice and public security ministry said it “recommends everyone keep some cash on hand due to the vulnerabilities of digital payment solutions to cyber-attacks”. It said the government took preparedness seriously “given the increasing global instability with war, digital threats, and climate change. As a result, they’ve ensured that the right to pay with cash is strengthened”.

[...]

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[–] Peffse@lemmy.world 6 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

This would suck so bad. My debit card's chip went bad and the bank can't reissue me a new one until it expires. I've been using cash as a fallback when I don't want to do the '3 chip failure timeout then swipe' dance just to purchase some soda.

[–] lazynooblet@lazysoci.al 13 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Report it lost instead. I've lost cards loads of times over the years. One phone call and the new one is on its way. However the fact your bank wouldn't issue your replacement makes me think they would charge you for this privilege.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago

And many banks can reprint one at the branch, all free of charge. It's incredibly cheap for them to do so, and they profit from each transaction, so there's little reason for them to refuse unless you do it a lot.

I've had a number of cards replaced, it's really not an issue.

[–] brewery@lemmy.world 9 points 3 weeks ago

They seriously won't issue one even though it's faulty? Surely it's their fault as suppliers of a defective product that is probably still owned by them in some legalise way!

My chip stopped working and after one quick phone call they sent a replacement one. Do all the banks you can access do this or worth changing over?

[–] M137@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

That doesn't seem right at all, no matter the country. And do you not have tap payments?

[–] Peffse@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Correct. The card is not tap. The only cards they can order now are tap, so to get a replacement they have to cancel the card and issue a brand new one, messing up any autopay tied to the current number and leaving me without a payment method while the new one arrives.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

messing up any autopay

Really? In the US at least, most autopay systems continue working when a new card is issued, even if there are completely new numbers. I've done this several times and never had a hiccup.

That's not the case if it's a new account entirely, but if the numbers merely change, you shouldn't need to do anything, because the bank just lets the other company know the new details when an autopay comes in with the old details (I think it's automated as well).

This actually pisses me off a bit, because it means I have to actually go cancel things instead of just letting them die when the card changes.

[–] Peffse@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah, I can't explain the limitation either. That's how all my cards worked before when they changed numbers after expiration, but the branch manager was very clear that the current debit card would be canceled not reissued. So it's a new account under my name with the tap card. They even showed me the software used to order replacements, and my card type was cleared marked DO NOT USE.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Is it a new account? Or is it just a new debit card number that references the same checking account?

With credit cards it's a bit more obvious what's going on because there's a clear difference between closing an account (requires another credit check), cancelling a card (changes number, but doesn't change underlying account), and reissuing a card (same number, just replaces the physical card). I've done all three with debit cards, and at least here, cancelling a card just means those numbers are no longer valid and you'll get new numbers, but the account is in-tact (and you retain the same account number) and autopay is redirected to the new number automatically.

I haven't had a debit card replacement impact the account except one time, when the checking account number was embedded in the debit card number (small bank, never again), and that was like 15 years ago.

[–] Peffse@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

same checking number, new account. The branch manager was 100% sure that any autopay using the current card would not be automatically updated because the new card would not be considered a successor to my current card.

She even showed me the scenario play out in the card ordering software.

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Weird, maybe debit works differently than credit? I haven't used a debit card for autopay for several years.

[–] Peffse@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

All I know is that if my country was entirely digital in payments, I'd be between a rock and a hard place.

[–] ifItWasUpToMe@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 weeks ago

In the future I’d recommend adding your card to your phone. It’s more secure paying with your phone vs card, and if you need a new card for whatever reason, your phone will automatically just keep working.

[–] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Wireless (tap) payments are vulnerable to wireless relay attacks.

[–] 0x0@programming.dev 5 points 3 weeks ago

the bank can’t reissue

You mean they won't. Change banks or threaten to do so, might work.

[–] Pika@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I would be changing banks. That's super unreasonable

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago

Exactly. In the US, I can ask for a new card pretty much whenever I want, though they may charge a fee if I do it too often. If they were being really difficult, I'd just tell them I lost it and they'd provide a new one, because they want me to use the card (they make money with each purchase).