However, it's only being forced for kernel-level anti-cheat. If it's only client-side or server-side, it's optional, but Valve say "we generally think that any game that makes use of anti-cheat technology would benefit from letting players know".

I will always love Valve for their ability to use corpospeak against corpos.

Your game has anti-cheat?

Wonderful!

I'm sure that always only results in an improved experience for all gamers, lets let them all know!

[–] Joeffect@lemmy.world -5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

How does vac play into all of this then ...

Edit: I was talking about them labeling vac games as being anti cheat... And wondering if they were going to pull some double standard... I didn't know they label them already and still don't know if they do...

[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 57 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

VAC is not kernel level, because surprise you don't actually need kernel level to do anti cheat well.

VAC games would just get the standard AC message banner, not the scary yellow kernel level warning banner.

... I am pretty sure VAC games have indicated on their store page that they use VAC for well over a decade.

[–] lastweakness@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

you don't actually need kernel level to do anti cheat well.

I'm sure you're right, but VAC is one of the worst examples for that... I think whatever Blizzard does with Overwatch 2 is a better example.

[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I would love to see any kind of documentation that can somehow prove OW2's AC is better than VAC, something that isn't based on vibes or immediacy bias.

[–] lastweakness@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I sure wish there was some empirical study regarding the same too. I'm very much going by anecdotal evidence from myself and others right now

[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

So ... your previous assertion that OW2's AC is superior to VAC was in fact just based on vibes.

Anti Cheat developers typically do not like to explain how exactly they work, how effective they actually are.

Their data is proprietary, trade secrets.

There will almost certainly never be a way to actually conduct the empirical study you wish for, save for (ironically) someone hacking into the corporate servers of a bunch of different anti cheat developers to grab their own internal metrics.

But that should be obvious to anyone with basic knowledge of how Anti Cheats work, both technically and as a business.

... None of that matters to you though, you have completely vibes based anecdotes that you confidently state as fact.

Please stop doing that.

When someone has no clue what they're talking about, but confidently makes a claim about a situation because it feels right, this is typically called misinformation.

[–] lastweakness@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I mean, anybody could verify it by spending a few hours each on the respective games... But yes, any empirical data would be nice. For example, a study on the amount of blatant hackers found on lobbies joined in comparable ranks. Anyway, this isn't exactly misinformation to anybody who has played both games at any decent rank. It's unproved but immediately discernible information. Take that how you will, i don't really intend to argue about this here. This kind of pointless argument is the worst thing about Lemmy.

[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

I mean, anybody could verify it by spending a few hours each on the respective games... But yes, any empirical data would be nice.

No, thats an anecdotal experience, and all it would tell you is the players' perception of how prevalent cheating is... not how prevalent it actually is, not how effective an anti cheat system is at blocking cheaters.

But yes, any empirical data would be nice. For example, a study on the amount of blatant hackers found on lobbies joined in comparable ranks

"It would be great if there was any valid data/research to back up or disprove that thing I said earlier, but there isn't, therefore I am completely justified in saying whatever as I want and acting as if its indisputable!"

Anyway, this isn't exactly misinformation to anybody who has played both games at any decent rank. It's unproved but immediately discernible information.

Again, no.

You made a claim that a particular anti cheat system is better than another.

You keep saying that 'oh anyone can just tell'.

No.

What you are describing is again, at best, player perceptions of cheating prevalence.

The logic you are using is exactly the same logic that people who believe in astrology or woo woo nonsense medical treatments use to justify their efficacy.

... You have nothing but vibes and anecdotes, which you admit are unproved and have no basis in fact, beyond 'i think this is obvious'.

You're just bullshitting.

It is indeed pointless to attempt to get a bullshitter to admit they are bullshitting, when they've already backpedalled by moving goal posts, dismissing the importance of the discussion after being called out for making a specific claim which they can't back up.

You could just admit that ah well shit yeah, I guess I don't have any actual valid reasoning or data to back up my claim, but nope you keep trucking on, doing everything you can to talk around that point instead of addressing it.

[–] Gigasser@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

I mean...bro was just giving an opinion man. He didn't even really say that much originally. I think claiming the "superiority" of something online alot of the times is vibes based. That ain't necessarily bad though. Are people not allowed to give more generalized or vague opinions?

[–] graff@lemm.ee 14 points 3 weeks ago

It doesn't run at the kernel level?

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