this post was submitted on 06 Mar 2025
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I have. I don't know which options you're referring to. Materia selection? I guess, but there are fewer permutations of those than there are spells/feats/stats in D&D 5e, and that's before we even get to all the stuff that makes BG3 stand out, like its emergent design. FF7 is a great game, but it is not emergent, and emergent design will nearly always be deeper than the finite stuff.
No you're right. Oil puddles are amazing emergent designs. My bad.
There are challenge runners who've beaten the entire game with only salami for weapons. Oil puddles are just a small part of it. There was a part in act 3 where I was denied entry to a place by failing a speech check. I could have possibly brute forced my way in and murdered everyone, but instead I found a back door that was three stories up on a balcony, cast flight on my rogue, and had him stealth in to achieve the objective. That's emergent design. Solutions to problems that weren't explicitly programmed in but work because the rules are loose and can be applied intuitively. There's a part in the game where you have to cross a bridge blocked off by some high level enemies, and there are a ton of ways to get across the bridge that I know of, several of which the developers didn't intend for, and probably dozens more that I've never even seen before, because the game just lets you run loose with its systems.
That's depth.
That is very cool, i agree.
There are other games out there that give that amount of freedom. If not more. That's all I'm saying.
It's a very pretty game.
I don't think FF7 is one of those games.
Can you give some examples of games that give more freedom than that? Because as the other person said, ff7 is not one of those. And I too am curious because I love those kinds of games. And while owlcat's pathfinder games are great, they're also not a viable answer, since you've mentioned them.
Fallout. Tyranny. Disco Elysium. Wastland. Ultima. New Vegas. Deus Ex. Outward. Vampire the Masquerade. Any Owlcat game (yes they are a valid answer). Kingdom Come.
Those are just off the top of my head.
Guess we just have a different definition of deep then if you feel like those games give you more options than bg3.
Lmao!
My thoughts exactly when I read your list of "deeper" games. What exactly can you do in kingdom come that BG doesn't allow you, for example?
They don't seem interested in detailing why they feel that way. They're just going to give BG3 backhanded compliments and list games they feel are better without explaining anything. And you know, I've played a number of those games too. They aren't deeper RPGs, because being deeper than BG3 is a high bar to clear.
Yup. I'm fine with bg3 being considered a shit game. That's an opinion and everyone can not like it. But it's silly to label it something that it's not. Something that's more or less measurable . Like pretending the sky is green or something. Makes no sense. Don't like the characters? Fine. Don't like the plot, writing, etc? Fine. But don't tell me it's shallow when it has so many different ways to approach everything and so many things you can do differently.
Dues Ex the famous on rails game, right?
Yeah, you got me. I totally said that.