801
Obviously, supporting a New York real estate billionaire is anti-establishment for some reason
(feddit.de)
this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2024
801 points (96.5% liked)
Memes
45704 readers
1062 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Socialist devs now
Socialism by definition is not anti establishment. It's anti current establishment but the philosophy is geared towards a bigger government "establishment".
No, it is not. Socialism does not mean statism. Please feel free to read up on libertarian socialism, Anarcho syndicalism or even eco socialism. The Greens/EFA in europe lean towards libertarian socialism.
Libertarian socialist here: Say it again for the people at the back.
How does that work together? Like a socio democratic flavor?
Right now our government has been trending authoritarian, but our companies are full-blown dictatorships.
In my ideal world, we don't have private ownership of businesses. Instead of banks we only have credit unions, instead of corporations providing services, we'd have worker's co-ops. We wouldn't even really have a stock market per-se, because everyone would own a share of every company.
The duty of our collective ventures is to benefit mankind, not to steal from the poor and give to the rich. Furthermore, our society should be optimized for the freedom of its people, not the freedom of its corporate masters nor the freedom of its military industrial complex.
Probably the most prominent libertarian socialist thinker is Noam Chomsky.
I was 100% not aware if libertarian socialism. Definitely something to learn about. Thank you
I'm pretty sure that's the difference between anti establishing and anti government. the "establishment" is the established power structure. technically fascists ARE anti establishment in most places. and that's a very good thing.
Are they tho
Republicans are going mask off, Italy is run by fascists again, AfD is at 20%, Putin is invading neighbors and bankrolling white supremacists world wide, Israel's engaging in open genocide, their neighbors wish they could do the same, the second largest party in Sweden was founded by Neo-Nazis...
Don't forget India's BJP/VHP/RSS ecosystem.
that's still only a very small handful of places, though i agree. it's spreading.
Fascists only pretend to be anti establishment their whole thing is preserving capitalism when it enters crisis.
hmm, that feels a bit like splitting hairs. at that point we have to argue whether the establishment is capitalism, or the government. and that just seems like a pedantic argument about semantics that will accomplish nothing. point being, most fascists want to overthrow their current government.
The government is part of the structure of capitalism though. It is an expression of the power of capital.
Depends which sense of "socialism" you mean, purely Marxist socialism perhaps, socialism in general no.
You are confusing socialism with communism. Latter is anti-establishment.
You are confusing left-liberalism with socialism.
I just gave the the Wiki link to it. There is a left-liberalism, it’s just that left-liberalism is not actually left: it’s liberalism. It’s Bernie Sanders liberalism. It’s Keynesian economics, social safety net liberalism. And you are correct, it is establishment. It keeps private ownership of the means of production intact.