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Obviously, supporting a New York real estate billionaire is anti-establishment for some reason
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this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2024
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Questioning the validity of science is precisely how science is done. You form a hypothesis and design an experiment to either prove or disprove it. Reading papers and just believing everything they say, taking for granted that the people who wrote them carried out the experiment(s) exactly as described, didn't fudge any numbers, and declared all their conflicts of interest and sources of funding accurately and unbiased, isn't.
Making your own discussion platform because you don't like the other ones that are available is no worse of an offense than going to a different room. Lemmy literally IS such a place that was created because people didn't like what was happening on reddit. Basically, what you're saying is that YOU deserve a safe space because your opinions are valid and correct, and other people don't because theirs are wrong. I don't know, man... sounds kinda fascist if you ask me.
Scientists do not question the concept of science. They challenge results of tests by performing new ones to replicate the proposed results.
I think maybe you need to retake some high school classes
Both the statements are true.. err... alright, maybe not the first one as much. You can question the concept of science (which, in a way, boils down to "Question everything") and still be a scientist.
Questioning the validity of (other's and your own previous) science is a part of the concept of science.
Questioning the concept of science is more of a philosophical matter and would be valid in a quest for better concepts.
The above two statements are not actually denying each other.
No, and neither do people who question the results, which is, in fact, what most "anti-science" people do.
Skepticism is part of the scientific method. Blind faith is not.
Hate to break it to you sunshine, going "nuh uh" at any science you don't like cause it clashes with your world view you gained from religion or your Bigoted daddy?
That's called blind faith.
Thanks for your opinion but I didn't deny any science, all I said is I don't fault people for questioning it.
Also, your insults are unnecessary and childish and don't really help your argument. I've argued my case respectfully and without name-calling, and I suggest you do the same.
"I don't have an argument so I'm going to deflect by saying I'M not a science denier I just spend my time defending science deniers. Also anyone who disagrees with me is a childish meanie 😭"
The guy thinks no one got anywhere from staying in school, I got odds on them being anti vax as well
"I don't have an argument so I'm just gonna pretend you said something you didn't and argue with that."
There are a number of easy classes you can take online, where you will learn about neat things like "the water cycle" and "why is the sky blue?"
Try hard enough and you might even get a gold star from the teacher
So you're saying the cure for bootlicking is becoming a teacher's pet? Isn't that just bootlicking with extra steps?
Teachers pet? What is this, high school?
If you think this sort of behavior stops when you get to college, I got news for you...
I've been a TA, I have personally witnessed it.
Im saying the cure for being a loser is to stop sluffing class, and maybe your grades will improve
No thanks. Nobody has ever become great from attending class.
Pfftt, ok bud. "Im not anti science! But no one ever became great by learning"
What a self own
What if I told you you don't need to go to class to learn?
What if I told you that the vast majority of real science actually does require you to go to class to learn?
I would say you're a bootlicking teacher's pet.
Licking what boot? The boot of the concept of learning things other people know?
Let me guess. You think vaccines cause autism, right? Because mommy told you otherwise, and mommy scary?
You can learn that from books, too. Or watching YouTube. Plenty of ways to learn that don't require a classroom setting.
Not as a rule, no. But I'm honestly very uninformed about this topic and currently don't have a reason to change that.
Let me guess, you enjoy making wild assumptions about people based on minimal evidence and then have imaginary arguments in your head with them which you always win.
LMAO okay buddy. Can't quit starting wars, eh? Old habits die hard I guess.
Also, for someone so ardently advocating for going to class you have a suspiciously large amount of free time on a Monday morning...
"Oooh, witness me, I have a job, I'm very important! I work all day to pay taxes and rent, but at least they don't keep me on a short leash."
Yeah, see, I knew you were a midwit.
BTW did you get one of these when you graduated?
Skepticism is the literal precursor to the scientific method, and that's where you're stopping. There is no science at the skepticism step.
You're basically saying, "Gravity isn't real because I don't see proof."
A real scientist would drop an apple, a feather, a bowling ball, and verify it.
Good, so we agree on something then. No skepticism = no science.
Strawman. I didn't say that.
Yes, and some of the people in the "anti-science" community ARE doing that. And the rest of them are conducting a self-experiment on what happens if you ignore all the science...
Acting as though the conclusions scientists before you have reached are false because a podcast you follow said they were, without supplying any data to suggest such a thing, is a wholesale rejection of the scientific method.
The person you replied to never said anything about Parler itself, let alone whether platforms that don't follow the popular consensus should exist. That is unambiguously good. What they said was that the people who run Parler are fascist bootlickers, which, now that Trump has said in as many words that he plans to be a dictator, is true of anyone who still supports him.
Can't help but notice your response didn't address the piracy issue. Can I assume we agree on that?
The problem with “big science” is that the ordinary person has no conceivable means by which to verify any of their claims, they have to be taken by faith. And there have been many, many cases in the past where this turned out to be a mistake. Unlike what some people will have you believe, science is never really settled, things that used to be the common consensus have turned out to be wrong many times in the past. What makes you think that nowadays, we’re somehow past all that, just because our methods are more precise than our forefathers’? Why should the knowledge we have now be the end-all-be-all when not too long ago, doctors used to prescribe cigarettes as a treatment for asthma?
Okay, but that’s just an opinion, not scientific consensus. People on Parler think the Fediverse is full of pedophiles, does that give them the right to shut it down?
I don’t care about stealing as long as there’s a legitimate need and it’s not just out of laziness or greed. I used to pirate my games and software when I was too broke to afford them, but once I started earning more money, I gave up on that and started paying for them, even though pirating would have sometimes been easier or more convenient.
So you disagree with the scientific consensus. Cool. Where's your data to the contrary? When are you publishing your study? Or are you just here to cast doubt on the validity of science as a concept, and use that as a basis to believe whatever a talking head says?
Parler advertises itself towards Trump supporters. I think it's safe to say there are Trump supporters there. Also, once again, neither I nor the OP said anything at all about Parler itself, only its founders. Where did you get the idea that I think it should be shut down?
I already told you why piracy isn't stealing. Do you have a response to that?
It's becoming increasingly obvious you're not arguing in good faith. I'm going to bed now. You'll have to pretend to argue with someone else for a while.
Strawman. I didn’t say I disagree with it, I just listed some valid reasons for why people might.
Yeah, okay, I get it, you just hate them. That’s allowed of course. I’m just pointing out that hating them for hating you makes you no better than them.
Of course it’s stealing, your justifications don’t change that. Like I said, I don’t think it’s objectionable when it’s done for legitimate reasons (like if the company removes access for something you already bought and paid for), and forgivable if you’re too broke to afford it, but it’s stealing nevertheless.
Only if your science is comfortable with being questioned and doesn’t require banning, unpersoning, or othering people for the sake of achieving consensus.
How many of your loved ones has Trump killed or is directly responsible for? If zero, then how do you know his threats are credible? Politicians make wild promises all the time, especially during election years, and then end up not keeping them. Unless he has personally sent you a letter saying he’ll kill your mom if he gets elected, I’m gonna suggest you’re overreacting just a little bit.
I said that regardless of whether or not legitimate reasons for it may exist in some circumstances, it is still stealing. If that doesn’t look like a counterargument to you, then I don’t know what does.
LMAO you serious? Just look at the amount of shit I got for even speaking out in favor of people who question the science.
"Democrats tend to care about people they don't know personally" – yes, unless they're Republicans, in which case all empathy goes out the window and blind hatred is allowed to take over. Or if they're unborn babies in their mother's wombs, in which case they aren't even people at all, which means it's fine to just kill them.
I'm sorry, but that's stupid. Yes, the producers of the shows that already exist still got paid, but if enough people cancel their subscriptions because they can torrent the content for free, there might not be enough money to produce tomorrow's shows, and if you enjoy watching their stuff, then you kinda stole from yourself, didn't you? Not to mention you're also stealing from the people who ARE paying their subscription because it's them who helped finance those shows you're watching. But like I said, if you are literally so broke that every single dollar you have goes to cover food and rent, I can sympathize, because man doesn't live on bread alone. But if you have the money to spare and you just prefer to spend it on something else, you're simply robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Question the science and believe what instead, genius? We are still in 2024 watching 2000 people die every week and all available data say that getting the shot has no adverse effects and reduces both the risk or contracting the disease, and the risk of death if you do, by over 90%. But Joe Rogan told them it had dead babies or microchips or whatever in it and they decide he knows better than big pharma. Even if these people don't die from the disease they still run the risk of spreading it to someone who wasn't eligible for the shot who might!
You seriously need to get your memory checked, dude. I've told you three times now and given you three different extremely valid reasons why I hate Trump supporters, and you've yet to address a single one of them, instead continuing to insist I hate them for no reason. If you're talking about Democrats and Republicans in general, I'd've hoped you of all people would know better than to make sweeping generalizations like that, especially after you told me off for assuming you believed science didn't work after you provided a list of reasons science didn't work.
2.1. If republicans cared about reducing the number if abortions, they'd advocate for contraception and comprehensive sex ed -- the only things that have ever reliably lowered abortion rates -- but those go against their religion, so they prefer to punish women who have sex at all, even in cases of rape, by forcing them to carry to term.
2.2. As for why that's bad, let's do a little thought experiment. Suppose there's a famous classical musician who got in a car crash, and the only way to save him is a new technique has been developed by which if someone is a perfect genetic match, their consciousness can live alongside a "donor" in the same body. This takes a serious toll on the donor's body to support two lives until the procedure is reversed. Suppose you're a perfect genetic match to this musician, and since you're just some guy off the street and this guy is already famous, they saw fit to do this procedure without asking your consent. He's got a concert coming up next week, and he'll be going in your body. "Don't worry," the doctors say, "he'll only be there for nine months. That's when his tour ends, then he'll be put up for adoption. You can keep him around till then, can't you?" You'd be pretty pissed, right?
So by not paying for a thing that other people pay for, I am stealing from people who paid to have that thing and now have that thing? Those are some serious mental gymnastics. Also, after cancelling Infinity Train, I'm no longer willing to give Netflix the benefit of the doubt that they will use that money to produce new shows.
If you still think the vaccine issue was only a matter of not believing the science, you are seriously mistaken. People were upset because Democrats were planning to force everyone to get the shot, regardless of risk factors, and despite it having been developed in record time and with a bunch of the usual safety procedures skipped. That’s not science, that’s forced participation in a scientific experiment, which, BTW, is a violation of the Geneva Convention. People were right to be upset about it regardless of whether it actually worked or not.
You’ve given a great illustration of the difference between Democrats and Republicans. Democrats hate Republicans because they’re Republicans, and then work their way backwards to rationalize their hatred by coming up with some silly thought experiment like you did. Meanwhile, Republicans don’t hate Democrats because they are Democrats, they hate them for what they do, but still secretly hope that one day they’ll realize the error of their ways. Meanwhile, the only secret hope Democrats have for Republicans is that they’ll all drop dead.
I’m sorry you’re a bit slow on the uptake, but I already explained it, I’m not going to repeat myself.
I didn't say Republicans. I said Trump supporters. I also gave a laundry list of specific grievances I had with nearly all members of the Republican party, and I thought it was implied that my hatred for them would go away once those grievances did.
Thank you though for this undeniable proof that you are not arguing in good faith. This discussion is over. Good day.
Yeah, sure, not all Republicans support Trump, but I bet you that those who don’t support him are still majority pro-life, so for the sake of this argument, it doesn’t really make a huge difference.
So am I to understand that you would stop hating non-Trump supporting Republicans if they became Democrats, but you still want Trump supporters to drop dead?
And to you as well!
Correct. That's no less reasonable than you stopping hating democrats if they become republicans, which you just said you did. As for why I hate Trump supporters, it is my responsibility as a US citizen to defend the US from fascism. Trump says he plans to be a "day-one dictator." He quotes Mussolini. He is a fascist. So, by extension, is anyone trying to put him in office.
And there goes another fake news hoax, fueled by blind hatred and deceptively written headlines.
What he actually said was that he would be a dictator ONLY on Day One (Source), but of course that didn't stop many liberal websites from reporting as if he had said it differently.
Now do you see what I mean about trusting "the science"? It only takes one Google search to debunk your claim, yet you go and present it as fact because you want so desperately for it to be true that you only look at the evidence supporting your claim and don't even attempt to disprove your hypothesis. The same thing happens with scientific research that's paid to achieve a certain result.
Lookie here! This thread has 8 parallel lines.